Novice sailer, with a up wind in a tight space problem...

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Novice sailer, with a up wind in a tight space problem...

Postby darts » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:05 am

Greetings,

So I finally was able to get my DS1 out on the water today, but ran into a issue I never faced while learning to sail in the JY15 on a large inland lake...

First off, heres my sailing environment:

The inland lake where I have my boat docked only allows me to sail in one direction (southwest)... I also have to fight a constant current which flows in from the great lake in the direction toward the bridge and then into a small bayou, making it a bottle neck situation as well.

So with my dock and land due north, bridge due east (about 50 ft), more dockage and land due west (about 300 feet), and the other shoreline directly across from my marina about a football field and a half away ....I have only but one choice, to get the boat pointed directly in a southwesterly direction. I can only achieve this by going up current and usually up wind, since there is usually a western wind coming off the great lake. It takes about the length of two football fields to have a clearing away from the bridge and land, before I can even attempt to get sails up, before the current takes my little DS1 back to where I came from and jams me into the bridge!

Problem: So once I get out to a spot where I can finally raise sails... I raised my sails, but found the bow of the boat was just being pushed into a 180 and back down current and wind?? Every direction I pointed my boat in, including into the wind, it did the same thing...and when the sails would fill, it would be worse, and throw me into a 180 spin back in the direction of which I came, back downwind and down current.

I've never experience this before, and cannot for the life of me, figure out how to stop the boat from doing this. Finally I just had to turn back and call it a day....Does anyone have any good sailing tips to a novice such as myself, on how to stop this from happening and make headway?? I'm sure it would be easy for most, but I'm just starting out, first time on my own with a sailboat, so any advice from you pros out there would be greatly appreciated!!

Good Winds to All,
Dave Art
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Re: Novice sailer, with a up wind in a tight space problem..

Postby willyhays » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:53 am

Ahoy Dave,

This is a challenging situation. Not only does it sound frustrating and confusing, but the proximity to the bridge makes it potentially dangerous.

You have two different issues. The first is the proximity of the bridge and the current and wind pushing you into it. The second is the tendency of the boat to turn downwind.

The first thing I would do is eliminate the first issue so you can deal with the second issue. If you are concerned about hitting the bridge, you may want to consider sailing the boat in a less challenging place until you solve the 180-degree issue and become confident in your ability to handle and maneuver the boat in a wide range of conditions and situations. You could do this by trailering the boat to another location, or you could motor, row or paddle far enough away from the bridge that you are confident you will have zero risk of being swept into it. This may be a pain, but early on in the learning process there’s a lot to be said for sailing in relatively low stress conditions. This would also allow you to focus exclusively on figuring out the boat handling issue.

Once you are situated in a benign environment, you can deal with your 180-degree spinning issue. I suspect the culprit is an unbalanced boat. If this is the case, the cause may be one or more of the following: rudder not fully extended, centerboard not fully extended, mast raked too far forward, sails not trimmed properly.

So, first make sure your boat is set up to sail as well as possible. Check the following:
1) Rudder is 100% down
2) Centerboard is 100% down. You must verify that the centerboard mechanism is functioning properly and fully extending the board from outside of the boat. You cannot rely on the position of the centerboard lift mechanism as an accurate indicator of the centerboard position. You can check the centerboard by extending it while the boat is suspended from a lift or rolled on its side on the ground. You can also have someone heel the boat over while close to shore so you can stand on shore or in shallow water and look under the boat.
3) Make sure the mast rake is correct. (There is more info on this elsewhere in the forum.)
4) Make sure the sails are properly set.

Once you have done all that you want to verify that the boat is properly balanced. Go sailing and see how it goes. Test the balance by sailing close hauled in a light to moderate breeze with both main and jib trimmed properly, a slight degree of heel, and the tiller slightly off center (toward the windward side). Then let go of the tiller. The boat should turn slowly into the wind. If so the boat is well balanced.

Is the boat still turning downwind? As an experiment, try sailing without the jib. This dramatically shifts the center of effort aft. Does sailing without the jib solve the 180 degree spinning?

Remember that even when perfectly rigged the DS1 is unlikely to be as nimble as the JY15 that you are used to sailing, because the JY15 has roughly the same sail area at half the weight.
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Re: Novice sailer, with a up wind in a tight space problem..

Postby KingsTransom » Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:31 am

Whatever we might write here, we're not there, and even if it were the best advice, it can be hard to apply (or even remember) under the pressure of keeping the boat out of harm's way. I think your best bet would be to have a friend with sailing experience join you and walk you through it. Looks like a boating community, so maybe a neighbor already does what you are trying to do. That said, and assuming prevailing westerlies, I would have the boat docked at the end of the pier with the bow to the wind, both sails up and the CB down, depth permitting. Sitting farther back can help the bow turn by moving hull resistance aft. Cast off and back-wind the jib to get the bow turned SW ASAP, sheet in the main and sail off the dock end on a starboard tack broad reach, trimming the jib accordingly. Moving forward will then help keep the boat from heading off too much. Agreeing with willyhays, it's probably a lot easier and safer to motor out and try the same maneuver away from the bridge.
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Re: Novice sailer, with a up wind in a tight space problem..

Postby GreenLake » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:05 pm

My money is on the centerboard not being down.

With the centerboard up, the one "deep" point in the water is the rudder. The hull by itself is pretty shallow and can easily be pushed sideways through the water, so if the CB is up, the boat will "pivot" around the rudder, until it is pointing downwind.

That seems to best fit the description of what happened.

The only other thing I can think of is that you are trying to first raise the jib and then the main. The jib being so far forward, always wants to turn the boat downwind (even when the CB is down, it would just pivot the boat around the CB). The main, being behind the mast, actually wants to turn the boat upwind (when it's sheeted in). If in doubt, raise the main first, perhaps sheet it in partially and then raise the jib. Sheet in the jib last as you get going.

I'm a bit unclear on why you are raising your sails out on the water.

If your dock is located where you have the pointer on the map, you should be able to find a place where you can temporarily secure your boat so it points due South, lower your CB and raise your sails, but let them blow out in the SW wind. Then you shove off, and sheet home and should be on a close hauled course (or close to it).

If the wind is more westerly than SW, that maneuver should be even easier.

If the wind is more southerly than SW, point the boat W, and after you've gone a hundred feet or so, you can start tacking.

If you can't find a spot where you can tie up (even briefly) to raise the sails with the boat pointed in a good direction, I can only think of going out fifty feet and dropping a small anchor. Then raise sails and continue as before.

Final alternative, get a motor (even an electric trolling motor will do for this, except in stronger winds). If your boat is pointing upwind or up to 90 degrees while at the dock, you can raise sails right there, let them fly, motor out far enough so you have a good clear tack and then sheet home your sails. (Or motor into the wind to set your sails and then when they take over, turn off the motor).

On a DS1, normally the handle indicates the position of the centerboard. If it's down, the board is down -- except if this is damaged. If the handle moves too easily, or if there's a large amount of play, then as KT wrote, it may give you misleading input.

Most of the other things are worth getting right, but usually don't cause the kind of issue. A wrong mast rake, for example, may result in the boat turning up or down wind, but can usually be counteracted by the rudder (it's just inefficient). If the rudder isn't all the way down, it's harder to operate and not as efficient, but it still steers.

So, look the CB and then at the order you raise your sails.

How strong are winds in your area on a typical day?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Novice sailer, with a up wind in a tight space problem..

Postby GreenLake » Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:21 pm

One of the docks I regularly sail from has a 50' by 250' channel between other boats to get out to the lake. Half the time the wind blows down the channel, so I have to short-tack my way out. The other half of the time the wind blows in the opposite direction, so I have the problem on returning. Luckily, there's no measurable current.

I simply raise sails (and lower the CB) at the dock, push off and sheet home. The trick is to get enough speed to be able to make the first tack. If I "pinch" the boat, that is try to sail higher than it can, it just stalls the centerboard and the boat will drift sideways. So, it's a bit challenging to not hit one of the boats.

Compared to that, your setup positively looks like "open water" to me :)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Novice sailer, with a up wind in a tight space problem..

Postby darts » Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:45 pm

THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR YOUR INPUT AND ADVICE!! I followed the steps you all suggested. With the aid of my trolling motor on a day with lighter winds 7-10 mph, I was able to get to a good spot and raise sails, main first, then jib and everything seems to be working fine now. Many thanks for the help!!

-Dave
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Re: Novice sailer, with a up wind in a tight space problem..

Postby GreenLake » Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:39 pm

Glad you got things to work. Hope you'll have a few sailing days left this season.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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