Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

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Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby Windtherapy » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:11 pm

I am going to get rid of the cam cleat set up whoever did to the boat and order the jib car set from Rudy at D&R marine. I have two questions;

1. Was this the original set up from O'Day and does anybody have a picture of how they are mounted?

2. Since the PO or whoever drilled more holes in the teak to mount the cam cleats, is there any good way to seal these holes in teak?
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby jeadstx » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:22 am

Here are a couple pictures I have of the setup in 1969. One picture is not real clear (from a 1969 O'Day Brochure), but you can see the jib sheets go to track on the coaming and then down to cam cleats on the centerboard trunk. To reference the brochure, I've attached a picture of my 1969 Day Sailer I showing the same setup.

1969 Brochure - Day Sailer cockpit.jpg
O'Day Brochure Picture
1969 Brochure - Day Sailer cockpit.jpg (205.78 KiB) Viewed 14511 times


1969 Day Sailer I - Jib Setup.jpg
1969 Day Sailer I
1969 Day Sailer I - Jib Setup.jpg (244.71 KiB) Viewed 14511 times


John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby GreenLake » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:22 pm

I really, really dislike that setup with the captive jib sheets.

I don't dislike the tracks, that's what I have, and I don't dislike the cleating on top of the CB either. What I dislike is the bullseye in front of the cleats. It makes it impossible to adjust the jib except from the windward side. I find that there are too many occasions when I need to adjust the jib sheets while sitting in some other location. Whether I'm single handing, teaching a newbie, or simply want to heel the boat to leeward in light wind, I end up reaching for the jib sheet close to the track, pull it in, and then bring it in from the top to clear in my (open, non-captive) cleats.

Here are pictures of my setup.

1818
1034

A while ago I decided to tie the ends of the jib sheets together, so that I can grab the sheet anywhere and don't have to worry whether it's the active or the lazy sheet. Originally, I did that for single handing, but I liked that setup so much that it's now "standard".
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby GreenLake » Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:24 pm

The wood on my DS ('63) is definitely not teak but mahogany.
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby Windtherapy » Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:11 pm

I'm confused even more now. My jib sheets do not cleat at the CB housing top, they cleat right after coming in through the teak (or mahogany or whatever it is). I hate it for you obviously have to reach over a tad to get them to release the sheet when tacking or gybing. It's crazy so I will have to figure out something else but would love clear pictures of what others have. I think cleating at the CB housing top would be much better.
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby GreenLake » Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:16 pm

Windtherapy wrote:I'm confused even more now. My jib sheets do not cleat at the CB housing top, they cleat right after coming in through the teak (or mahogany or whatever it is). I hate it for you obviously have to reach over a tad to get them to release the sheet when tacking or gybing. It's crazy so I will have to figure out something else but would love clear pictures of what others have. I think cleating at the CB housing top would be much better.


I've sailed in boats (not DS) that were rigged to have the cleat on the windward (not leeward) rail. That's really convenient for crew that sit on the rail or hike out.

For a setup like yours it's a matter of angles. If you need to pull the jib sheet forward to release, that can get really awkward when you single hand, but crew sitting in front may not necessarily have an issue releasing from across the boat (if all else fails, a well-placed "kick" will release the sheet).

The setup I have (I hope you find the pictures clear enough), releases with any tug on the jib sheets (if crew is sitting anywhere on the windward side) and, importantly, will never "auto-cleat": in fact, if you sit on the rail, you'll need to place a foot on the jib sheet to push it low enough to engage the cleat.

Most conditions you'd want to cleat the jib and not touch it, other than throwing it off for the tack, or if a gust is strong enough that throwing off the mainsheet isn't enough. For situations where you might want to "play" it, I installed ratchet blocks, so it's easier to hold it without cleating it, and in those conditions, it's really important that you don't have to fight a cleat's tendency to cleat a sheet when that is not wanted.

"Captive" cleats do have the unfortunate tendency to grab a sheet that's running out and cleating it unasked.

Anyway, you can see, different setups have different advantages and disadvantages.

PS: for plugging holes, you could try getting a piece of comparable wood and using a plug cutter to cut plugs and glue them in place with a waterproof wood glue like Titebond III, but perhaps that's overkill.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby jeadstx » Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:23 am

My DS II had the cam cleats on the rail track in it's original factory configuration. I didn't like that set up and moved the cam cleats to the centerboard trunk, works much better.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby Windtherapy » Tue Oct 04, 2016 10:07 am

Yes I am going to move the sheets to the CB top and get some new cam always or something. Not sure yet but not sure how to mount them either. How much space is there between the top of the CB housing and the CB itself when up? Is there at least and inch so I can fabricate a bracket to hold 2 cam cleats as I have seen others do?
Pictures of this setup from others would be great if anybody has any.
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby GreenLake » Tue Oct 04, 2016 3:02 pm

Well, I posted a picture of the bracket I had a local shop manufacture for me from SS.

You can see where it is held to the CB by bolts that go across. It turns out that the ended up just a bit below the "roof" of the CB, but there's enough clearance there.

Here's the picture again (you can click on it to view it better).
1034

The cleats are held with bolts to the bracket - they are not bolted into the CB. This required a bit of a stand-off to have room to fit the nuts. However, the top of my CB was raised in that area, probably as a result of having provided the kind of angled support you can see in John's picture. These had been ground off (partially) by a PO. I ended up drilling some shallow holes of wide diameter to allow more room for the nyloc nuts for the cleats.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby Windtherapy » Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:25 pm

Awesome and thanks for the pictures. One more question. Do you then run your jib sheets through the small block and then through the eyelet in the teak and then to your cleats on the CB?
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby GreenLake » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:28 am

Windtherapy wrote:Awesome and thanks for the pictures. One more question. Do you then run your jib sheets through the small block and then through the eyelet in the teak and then to your cleats on the CB?

As you can see from this picture
1818
(click on it to see it in larger)

I have a set of tracks on the inside of the coamings. Apparently this was an option in '63, because the tracks that were in the boat were original (same brand as all the other blocks etc. on the boat, the "whale" brand). The reason I say "option" is that the deck moldings have a small, slightly raised circular area on the outside of the coamings, just where you'd expect a small turning block to be fitted for the kind of setup you have.

Now, even more intriguing, I took a picture of the underside of the deck, and it's clear that that circular "pedestal" was at one time drilled to accept the bolts for such a block. You can still see where the company simply filled the holes with matching gel-coat. (I did that many years ago and don't have that particular picture anywhere I can easily get to it). The conclusion is that they were prepared to build boats for boat options and would pre-drill the decks but if they needed one without the holes, they just patched it up (this matches in kind some of the other known oddities that can be observed by comparing DSs of similar vintage).

The track you see in the picture above is a like for like replacement of the original setup with Harken tracks later upgraded to use Ronstan 55mm ratchet blocks. These are mounted on the inside of the coamings and there's no "little hole" in the mahogany of the coamings. (The wood on my boat is quite definitely not teak - you can tell because teak would have more noticeable grain and the wood when sanded has a reddish hue typical of mahogany).

The jib is sheeted to the inside of the coaming in this setup. (As an aside: my sailmaker advised against adjusting the sheeting location, suggesting it be kept at the most forward location at all times, but with barber inhauls fitted to improve pointing in moderately strong winds).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby Windtherapy » Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:24 pm

So Greenlake, your jib sheets just run over the cutty top straight from the rachet block?
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby GreenLake » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:28 am

That's correct.
946
If you look closely, you will see the barber hauler (white line, ending in a block). It's slacked off all the way in the picture, so the block has slid down all the way along the sheet (green). The the other end of the barber hauler is cleated off on the cuddy top - but you might hold off on adding barber haulers until later. Eventually, you'll find that with them you'll be able to pull the jib into a slightly shallower angle (clew more inboard) and that helps in pointing when the wind is moderately strong (6-12 knots)

The picture also shows the original block before I upgraded to ratchet blocks.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby Windtherapy » Fri Oct 07, 2016 4:24 pm

Thanks Greenlake. I think I would love the ratchet blocks so that is what I am going to do. Now if I can find a short . And true on the Barber Haulers, I need to learn how to sail a lot more before worrying about Barber Haulers. I think I might just get this boat the way I like it over the winter and then use it all next summer to learn, take the ASA 101 in the spring as well and then the following year do the first launch on my O'Day 26 because I have more work to do with it anyway.

Question on the ratchet blocks, I see they have clockwise and counter clockwise--I assume I need one of each correct? I am guessing they label these based on which way it ratchets when hauling in and not letting out correct...if this is true, then the counter clockwise would on the starboard side----correct?
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Re: Picture of original jib car set up & teak repair

Postby GreenLake » Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:12 pm

You wrote: "Now if I can find a short ." A short what?

The ratchet blocks have a swivel. While they turn only one way, you can flip them over, so there's only one kind.

You do need to pay attention in rigging them, so you don't thread the sheet from the wrong side. You will look very foolish when you try to pull in a sheet and cannot. Don't ask me how I know. :oops: (One of the reasons I've learned to leave my sheets rigged during the season, less to go wrong).

You'll find that the DS is a perfect boat to learn sailing "on your own", by which I mean the iteration of reading about something, trying it out, observing what works and how, and then repeating it, by reading some more; each time you'll get a better appreciation of what the writer was trying to tell you, and a better feel for your boat.

When you have sailed your DS for a while, have a friend pull the jib sheet inboard a bit (a few inches) while you are going upwind. By that time, you should know your boat well enough and have it under control enough that you should be able to tell the difference. Then, and only then are you ready to fit barber haulers.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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