A little help

Topics primarily or specifically about the DS2. Many topics are of general interest, so please use forum sections on Rigging, Sails, etc. where appropriate.

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A little help

Postby Jchase » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:17 pm

Hey there forum,
We are on the cape in Falmouth this week. I was about to purchase a used day sailer II and backed off.

Having never sailed one I am writing to ask if anyone might be up for taking me and my 18year old daughter through the rigging. An hour short sail with someone with experience would also make my daughter more comfortable.

Once we are comfortable and know a little more I will purchase a use one.

Please let me know if anyone would like to help us out this week.


Thanks
Jim
979.390.2468
Last edited by Jchase on Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A little help

Postby jsbowman6 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:07 pm

Have you sailed particular type of boat before and has she?
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Re: A little help

Postby Jchase » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:27 pm

I am 53 and been on crew with friends on larger boats for many years. Last several years I helped out on a Beneteau 36. I also crewed on a J boat in my 20's. We also rent cats each summer. I hope to get more direct experience starting with the day sailer.

My daughter has no experience.
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Re: A little help

Postby jsbowman6 » Tue Jul 12, 2016 3:19 pm

I can give you my new impressions, having sailed bigger boats since 1985, someone here said the DSII is more like a Mazda Miata. Here's my perspective. I've only had mine for a few months and have been out in 2 to 20 mph winds. When you pull up the sails, it's ready to go, I mean it's moving. I'm still learning how to single hand this and find it a little challenging, but it will be doable. With a 3-8 MPH wind, it will move very fast beating into the wind. Above 10 mph, I've had to reef the main and it made a big difference to the rudder control. It will heel more than a cruiser, but so far I haven't turned it over. Overall it's a blast and will sail in much lighter winds than cruisers. I also have an 18 year old girl, but without her having sailing experience, I wouldn't turn her loose with this one. Everything happens fast with this boat. Now to be fair to the boat, I've never sailed a small boat until I bought this one. It operates like my old boat, just simpler. In my humble opinion, I would add or insure the boat has the following: Jiffy reefing system, down haul to pull down and hold down the jib and a tiller tamer. When you drop the main, it's in the cockpit with you, but that's not bad, I feel if it was still piled on the boom, the boat would still sail a bit. Some of these boats are cheap and good value. Look carefully at the fit of the trailer, I'm still messing with mine so the bow doesn't drag on the frame as I launch and pull the boat back onto it. Pull the main up, I'm thinking the boom should land about 24" above the cabin's roof, mine does not showing the mast has been cut, but it's enough, that it's usable. The method used to move the center board down in my opinion is a bad design. There is far more mechanism used than I feel is needed. If the design simply had a bit of weight on the center board, then 1 line could simple drop the board down and put it up. But O'Day designed 2 lines to rotate it down and one to pull it up, and it's a potential problem, although I've not had any......especially since I quit cleating off the down line.
These things are still being built brand new and for $17000 you can have a new one. Folks race these and there are rules provided and most anything can be bought for them from most marine stores and specific stuff can be bought from DR Marine.
Now what I've written is the opinion of a new to small boat sailor. I have learned more about sailing since I bought this than all the years of sailing a 22 footer. There is a wealth of information here on the forum and much more qualified folks to speak to this little boat. But mine shows impressions from me just having the boat for a couple of months. Would I buy it again.......I might have been a little more picky about what I got and looked for more single handing options. But I only paid $650 for the the boat and trailer and still have not broken $1000 total with all I've added to the boat and trailer.

Good luck.
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Re: A little help

Postby Jchase » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:09 pm

A friend is selling a MFG Sidewinder Sailboat 17'. It looks much lighter then the O'Day. Any thoughts on the Sidewinder for Ocean sailing as compared to the O'Day
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Re: A little help

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:36 pm

A lighter weight boat will be more reactive. I find the DS more forgiving than other small boats that I've sailed. Like all non-ballasted small boats it does require the crew to actively balance the boat by shifting weight and/or changing the trim, but there are different degrees of "promptness". Also, you can walk on a DS without tipping it; there are dinghies that are not much smaller, but so light that you can't get to the foredeck without tipping over the boat (unless actively counterbalanced by a second person).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: A little help

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:58 pm

@JChase, If you've been around sailboats as much as you claim then I would think that you might well be able to sort out the rigging from the information you can find here. (Any basic setup is fine for a start, no need to rig anything fancy). And, if you take her out on a day where the winds are light (and at best moderate), say up to 8 knots (9mph), then the DS would be forgiving enough to let you work things out on the water. (Assuming that there are no issues like fast tides, river current, really narrow channels or lots of traffic).

I totally agree that having someone join you would be invaluable, and when I made the transition from an 8' cat-rigged boat to the DS, I did rely on a friend. The things that were new to me included: more than one sail, a stayed mast, use of a trailer. Amazing to me in retrospect that on my second trip I was already comfortable enough with the boat to go out single handing (in light winds).

I don't know what experience you have with a trailer, but the one thing that might be different from boats that you've sailed on before is how to step the mast. If it's hinged, that's something that should be quite manageable for two people to figure out and manage. A keel-stepped mast is a bit less obvious.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: A little help

Postby Jchase » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:07 pm

Thanks everyone - very helpful
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Re: A little help

Postby SethBB » Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:08 pm

I don't know anything about an MFG Sidewinder, but "ocean sailing" and Daysailer are words that only go together under limited circumstances, IMO.

I've owned a DSII for a little over a year and single-handed in 20mph+, if I'd been dealing with ocean swells at the same time there would have been trouble, even with crew. I'd think you'd want to use a Daysailer in somewhat protected to protected coastal waters. It doesn't carry any ballast, and has a fundamentally different reaction to gusts and waves than a keel boat like like a Beneteau.

I do love a small boat on a trailer like a Daysailer. So much fun. The bigger water must be treated with quite a bit more respect than in a 24 to 36 foot keel boat.
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Re: A little help

Postby Solarwinds » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:00 pm

Here goes my 2 bits.
Have my DS1 for 2 years. Previously had a Catalina 25 inboard diesel for 10 years and a 22 footer for 5 yrs previous to that. Sailing venue is the Hudson River around Tappan Zee. Last 15 years have also crewed on Ensigns, mostly.
I usually go out with a buddy that has knee trouble and let him drive. He is a little slow in changing sides, so from time to time we've taken water over the gunwales. One day this summer, the sailflow site showed 25 gusting to 40. Took in a lot of water that afternoon, but if you let out the main, you won't have a problem. If you have a mainsheet block that cleats, it may be better not to cleat it off in high winds, just hold it with your hand and let it slide out when you need to.
On July 4th, I went out with one crew. Never any drama. The sailflow data for that day was 20 gusting to 25. My main does not have reefs nor do I have a vang.
On that day, we never took the jib down, I just eased the main as needed. The waves on the Hudson were big, not just whitecaps. Beating back to the Club the wind was out of the south, the waves were out of the south and the boat would rise and fall into the troughs. Not reefed, jib up, and didn't even take on much water.
I've singlehanded the boat in 8 - 10 knots. Maybe it was just luck but I could just sit on the gunwale, both hands by my sides, tiller untended and balanced, main sheet cleated.
In a word, these boats are SWEET.
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Re: A little help

Postby jeadstx » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:54 am

I've sailed my Day Sailer II in lakes and on the Texas coast. The lake I sail on in central Texas has strong winds sometimes and the hills around the lake create some odd shifty winds. Sailing on the Texas coast, the winds are typically 15 to 20 knots especially as the day heats up. I've sailed my DS II (with crew) over 200 miles up the Texas coast 3 times on the Texas 200 (a camp cruising event). On the Texas coast we have a lot of "skinny" water as well to deal with, not to mention oyster reefs. The Day Sailer can handle the winds and shallows well (as well as deep water). Although we sail in the "protected" area between the barrier islands and the mainland, some of the bays that are crossed are very big and land on some sides may not be visible. The waves can get big. One year we dealt with 6-8 foot chop. The Day Sailer could handle it. I have two sets of reefing points on my main with jiffy reefing.

As stated in some posts, the centerboard controls on the DS II aren't great, but can be dealt with. The DS I has a better centerboard system. A hinged mast on a DS II can be put up by a single person, as noted a keel stepped mast my take two. Rigging isn't that complicated. One stay on each side and a forestay. No back stay, although some boats may have a topping lift rigged that would give the impression of a backstay. I think, 1974 and after had mid boom sheeting, earlier boats came with a Crosby main sheet setup, but some early boats have been converted to mid boom setup. Jib sheets run inside the side stays. A DS can also be rigged to use a spinnaker.

Although the last few years I've sailed my Mariner on the Tx200, I still race my DS II. Since these boats are still in production, parts are available if needed. Many used small boats are out of production and finding or adapting parts can be difficult. I find this a plus for the DS.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: A little help

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:59 am

The DS is unballasted and has fairly low freeboard which are some of the reasons why "ocean" sailing is probably best limited to behind barrier islanders, in inlets, bays, sounds and other more protected waterways with easy access to shore should conditions turn. Within those limitations, the DS is a great boat to explore.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: A little help

Postby SUNBIRD » Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:11 pm

I've had my DS II for 20 years, sailing out of Wareham, MA on Buzzards Bay. The absolute, do not violate rule with any small, unballasted sailboat is to ALWAYS keep the mainsheet in hand while sailing, use the cam-cleat provided to hold the tension, but ALWAYS keep the mainsheet In hand to allow instant release to spill the wind in puffs. et a tiller extension to allow you to sit on the windward side deck to better keep the boat upright, maybe it is due to my 200# weight, but my boat will stand up to more wind if I sit on the side deck as opposed to the cockpit seat. The DS II is capable of some open water sailing if sailed like the centerboard boat she is. I echo the advice about reefing, and also have found that the boat will sail quite nicely without the jib if you jut raise the CB a little to adjust the balance of sail center to CB center. I have a friend who used to regularly sail his old O'DAY Widgeon (12'4") from Falmouth to Oak Bluffs on Martha's Vineyard, I used to have a Widgeon...... and I would rather make the trip in my DS II ,but even than only in good weather conditions. I have had one or two almost "close-calls" over the years, but capsizing is certainly not hard to avoid with proper care, under race conditions, it may be more likely, but I have found that easing the mainsheet in puffs has always prevented it for me.

The CB rigging on the DS II went through 3 different setups, the last one (1977-85) actually works pretty good, and isn't all that complicated to use. I suspect one reason that O'DAY did not simply weight the CB to allow it to drop on it's own, without being pulled down (and mine will drop on it's own, the line just holds it down), is that DSA measurement rules limit the weight of the CB to no more than 25# and so the CB can't be any heavier than it is (although...... I suspect many non-racing boats do have heavier CBs due to various repairs and I'm not sure how well O'DAY actually obeyed that DSA weight limit). That said, I like the old-style lever operated Centerboard on the DS I and present DS IV better!
Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD"
1979 DS II, # 10201
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