Pushed my DS 2 .. Possibly to it's limits yesterday

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Pushed my DS 2 .. Possibly to it's limits yesterday

Postby smitrock63 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:09 pm

Being a novice, I've been eager to learn as much as possible with my DS2. Yesterday, I had her heeled over till water was coming over the rail, and kept her close to that point for quite sometime.

A had a partner hanging way out on the windward side, and controlled her without capsizing.


That said, as I've read further, sailing this way isn't faster, although, it seemed it was.

Looking back, I wonder how close I was to capsized?

Would like your opinions and experience on this. Looks like I need to calm down a little.
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Re: Pushed my DS 2 .. Possibly to it's limits yesterday

Postby Alan » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:14 pm

I'm eagerly awaiting the opinions of the experienced sailors here. In the meantime, it's really good to know what is get-awayable with. Thanks!
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Re: Pushed my DS 2 .. Possibly to it's limits yesterday

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:36 pm

When water just gets over the rail, that's not that close to the point where you lose control in a capsize with a DS. For a DS1 at some point past that you can get serious volume of water in the cockpit and cuddy, which would affect stability negatively. For a DS2, with its double hull, I would expect the effects to be less dramatic. I've had water up to the coamings a number of times on my DS1 and it did not result in capsize.

You are correct that you will sail faster when you sail flat, but not always. The exception is very (!) low winds, when heeling the boat can reduce the skin friction (by reducing the wetted surface). Heeling the DS to leeward in those conditions also helps the sail shape (gravity will help "fill" the sail when the wind isn't strong enough).

The different components to drag each have a different speed regimen at which they dominate (are the biggest contributor to total drag). Skin friction dominates at low boat speeds, wave drag dominates at the top end.

If you can get the DS onto a plane (see discussion of planing elsewhere on this forum), you can reduce the effect of wave drag dramatically and sail a lot faster. Not really possible upwind in a DS, but you should be able to get there on a reach. For planing, you want the area at the back of the boat flat (that's how the DS is designed) and parallel to the water's surface (i.e. also sail the boat flat).

Below planing speeds, sailing the boat flat should also make it (somewhat) faster, but unlike the transition to planing the difference isn't as noticeable; you may need to have another boat to compare yourself to, to see it.

If you have a GPS (or an app that records speed), if you get above 6-6.5 knots you would be planing. (The wind is too variable to make a GPS a reliable indicator of small improvements - a DS reacts too fast. On bigger boats, that react more slowly and therefore "average" some minor fluctuations in the wind, you can sometimes see the effect of some trim change in the GPS speed).

Sailing more flat, a little less "on edge" should also give you a bit more reserve if you are hit by a sudden stronger gust.

If you have a vang and it is a 3:1 or 4:1 upgrade it to something more powerful (12:1 or more). Use it to flatten your sail, use outhaul and, if you have it, cunningham for same. With the sail kept flat by the vang, let out some mainsheet to depower (if you let out just the sheet, the boom will go up, make a deeper sail shape and power up the sail when you don't want that).

And, if you like this kind of sailing, fit hiking straps so you and your crew can hike hard to keep the boat flat.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Pushed my DS 2 .. Possibly to it's limits yesterday

Postby smitrock63 » Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:27 am

It certainly is fun to sail like that, but, it would wear me out sailing that way too long. I've just been sailing on the safe side to a point where I felt I needed to push it more to be a better sailer.

Another thing I've learned, and something I certainly did wrong was control the healing with the rudder instead of the sheets. I did have my hand on the main sheet, but, I must admit it was cleated most of the time and my first corrective action was the rudder and live ballast. Thinking more about that, I wonder how much rudder was actually in the water?

Not sure.

Thanks for the replies. Very good information.
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Re: Pushed my DS 2 .. Possibly to it's limits yesterday

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:54 am

BTW, it's "heeling" not "healing" - there's no curative properties :)

I "stole" this from another forum:

Ease, hike, trim.
Ease, hike, trim.
Ease, hike, trim.

Repeat this 1000 times, and you'll be there.

Ease the sheet just a bit, hike hard to flatten the boat out and trim the sail back in to where it was before.

Ease, hike, trim.
Ease, hike, trim.
Ease, hike, trim.

You only have 994 to go-


See, it's not that hard. :)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Pushed my DS 2 .. Possibly to it's limits yesterday

Postby K.C. Walker » Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:32 am

+1 for ease, hike, trim! Yes, it is definitely faster and what all the racers do. It is also safer. The reaction time of your boat is really slow responding to rudder movement, especially if you are heeled over. However, if you do not cleat your main sheet but use a ratchet block instead, your response time is very minimal. You can sail your boat flat and anytime it starts to heel, meaning you are overpowered, ease the main sheet. With practice, you will find that easing just a little bit makes a significant difference. Sometimes it's called playing the sheet, meaning it's almost a continuous motion. Another good saying is "when in doubt, let it out" meaning the main sheet.

For a newbie sailor, I suggest lessons. If you decide not to get someone else to give you lessons, pick a lesson for yourself and practice. Pick one aspect of sailing and make that skill the objective of your outing. You will be amazed at how fast you advance doing that.

I would find it uncomfortable (scary) and very slow to sail without a ratchet block and hiking straps. Once I learned how to de-power the sails and how to sail the boat flat it's a screamer. I sail on a busy big lake and I often find myself one of the last boats still out when the wind kicks up.

These boats will definitely capsize. I have swamped my boat three times due to too much heeling. All three times I had other people out and I let them control the main sheet and helm. Even with me yelling instructions, the new sailors reaction time was just not fast enough. A friend that I've sailed with for years, and taught me to sail years ago. He has sailed with me in my boat now for years and we go out in some crazy weather. However, his own sailing is mostly in a heavy ballasted sailboat and that is his style. He bought a Daysailer for mini regattas with my boat. His first outing he capsized the boat!
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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