Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby willyhays » Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:39 pm

Some very good points. It is indeed complicated, hence my simplistic solution, i.e., to locate the flotation in the well-supported area just above the spinnaker halyard sheave box. I'm not suggesting that this is the best location in most conditions. I think the masthead is probably a better choice in most situations. However, I'm leaning this way because it seems less likely to cause problems in the (admittedly rare) extreme conditions in which I may find myself.
willyhays
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:58 am

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby owldraco » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:59 pm

Just as a random thought, how about adding a couple of pool noodles to the stays above the spreaders. Or would that cause too much aerodynamic drag?
They are cheap enough and could be taken off after each trip to reduce UV exposure.
owldraco
 
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:09 am
Location: Central KY USA Green River Lake

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby willyhays » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:21 pm

Owldraco, I think you are onto something there. Yes, it would produce a lot of turbulence, but I like that it is simple, inexpensive, and easy.
willyhays
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:58 am

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby jeadstx » Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:23 pm

Willyhays,

When I capsized in 2012, my boat was heavily loaded with gear and supplies while sailing the Tx200. The small amount of flotation in my mast head (foam in upper two feet) was sufficient to keep the masthead on the surface. I also have a small water bottle strapped on up there, but don't know if that helps much, just a little extra flotation.

You mentioned you will be sailing British Columbia and Alaska. Are you planning to do the Race to Alaska in June of 2015 by any chance?

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby willyhays » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:38 pm

Hi John. That's good information to know, thanks. I can't put flotation inside the mast because of the taper and internal halyards, but as GreenLake suggested, maybe I could glue foam to the outside other mast. I might be going overboard with the giant inflatable device. What I really should do is get the boat in the water, load it up with all my gear (600 lbs) and do some more experimenting. Then I could make a more informed decision.

By the way, I did load it up and go sailing. Including me that's about 800 lbs of cargo. She sailed very well until the wind dropped below 6 knots (true), then things got pretty sluggish. I'm considering a light-air genoa, but that's for another thread...

I've never heard of the Race to Alaska, what's it all about? Sounds intriguing. The trip I have planned is a slow cruise from Vancouver area up to Ketchikan and back. I'll be departing in Spring 2015.
willyhays
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:58 am

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby Baysailer » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:55 pm

I don't know how relevant, or realistic this is but if the mast section could be sealed and put under low pressure it would provide some level of positive buoyancy without added weight aloft. Underground telephone cables were run for decades with no fill and compressed air kept the cables dry even if the sheath was holed.
Baysailer
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:18 pm
Location: Pillar Point, NY

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby willyhays » Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:12 pm

Ahoy Baysailer,
I think your idea is the ideal given the right equipment. If I had a deck stepped (tabernacle) mast with external halyards, then sealing the spar as you suggest would be my top choice. I don't know about pressurizing the mast, but simply sealing it well would seem to me to be a great solution. In my case the spar has internal halyards, therefore impossible to seal completely.
willyhays
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:58 am

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby GreenLake » Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:03 pm

Why not zip-tie several sections of pool noodle to the upper mast (easy since your halyards are internal). Then redo your experiment and remove section by section until failure. Restore to some safety factor above minimum and presto! I would suggest you consider zip-tying half-noodles (split lengthwise) for final installation. Simpler to rig and check than gluing foam.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7136
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby willyhays » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:28 am

That's a great idea to use zip-ties and pool noodles! That would make the experimenting (without mainsail) very, very easy. I'm not sure I understand completely though about the zip-ties. Once I determine the correct amount of pool noodle how would I zip-tie them to the mast and still be able to raise the main? Are you suggesting I drill small holes in the mast and pass the zip-ties through the holes?
willyhays
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:58 am

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby GreenLake » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:20 am

Brain fart on my part. :D :D

But as you note, good for the experiment.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 7136
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby Baysailer » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:59 am

A few years ago I did a controlled test. I had upper stays and I covered them with pool noodles, also covered the lower stays up to the spreaders with pool noodles. I was set to add floatation to see how much was needed to keep the mast afloat but the noodles did the job. I also had a pole to see if I could right it from the mast but didn't use that. I did right it myself with a righting line I tied to a eyestrap on the gunnel. It was calm and I was on a mooring and no sails up and hull emptied out, so not real world. After righting it had 4-6" of water that needed to be bailed. Since then I added floatation under the gunnels-behind the coamings.
Baysailer
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:18 pm
Location: Pillar Point, NY

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby jeadstx » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:08 pm

You could rivet some small eye straps to the front of your mast to attach the pool noodles to with zip ties. The small water bottle I have is attached in a similar manner and does not interfer with the sail track.

I put a post about the "Race to Alaska" under the event catagory. The link to the event is http://racetoalaska.com/about/

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby willyhays » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:25 pm

GreenLake: I was thinking one of us must be having a brain fart!

Baysailer: when you say, "I also had a pole to see if I could right it from the mast," would you please explain? I'm not catching your drift there. And how did you end up righting it? Did you stand on the centerboard?

John: Thanks for the link to the Race to Alaska. Looks fun. Well, maybe not so much fun, but very challenging. I am intrigued, but I think I'm more into the slow, scenic, gunkholing approach.

It's starting to sound like a couple of pool noodles might do the trick. Since I can't zip-tie them on and use the mainsail, I could use the eye straps, which would definitely work, but I'd like to avoid drilling holes if possible. If I could find an adhesive that is very secure I'd go with that. Do you all have any suggestions for a suitable pool noodle to aluminum adhesive? I was thinking 3N spray-on contact cement.
willyhays
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:58 am

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby jeadstx » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:43 pm

Perhaps, rather than glueing a pool noodle to the mast, you could glue an eye strap (or something similar) to the mast and zip tie the pool noodle in that fashion. Glue my damage foam.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby Baysailer » Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:31 pm

Willyhays,

I righted it by standing on the centerboard, standard method for righting. I've righted my buccaneer a lot of times and always by myself. Takes patience and perserverance but this was the only time I did it with the daysailer.

The pole was just a flaky idea. I had 5 ea, 5' sections of aluminum pole that screwed into each other to extend it. I had a loop at one end to hold onto the mast. My idea was to use the pole to push up from the end of the mast and add sections as it started to right. I wasn't over my head where the mast end was so I could have done it with my feet on solid ground.
Baysailer
 
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:18 pm
Location: Pillar Point, NY

PreviousNext

Return to Miscellaneous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests

cron