The dreaded stemhead problem

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The dreaded stemhead problem

Postby ChrisB » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:29 am

OK, so I jinxed it by saying recently I hadn't had the problem. Now I do. The forward bolt on the steamhead fitting has pulled loose about 1/8 inch and there is a slight bend in the fitting as a result. I tried to tighten the bolt but it turns without getting tighter which leads me to conclude either the backing bar threads are stripped or if a nut was used, it has fallen off. I've read many of the posts about this problem and there seems to be differing opinions of how to best access the area to replace the stemhead. Has anyone installed an inspection port on the bow deck? How did you overcome the problem of the curved deck? Is the stemhead reachable from the cuddy bulkhead? While I'm at the repair, would it be advisable to add a bolt through the bow into the "L" fitting to add strength?
Chris B.
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Postby Alan » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:34 pm

Roger Conrad put an access port in his bow deck. He emailed me a photo of it, which I can't find at the moment. His email address should be in the sticky note at the beginning of the DSII forum if you want to contact him.
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Postby jdoorly » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:19 am

When I got my boat it had a 4" round plate in the foredeck just forward of the flotation bulkhead. I had several dealings with the pointy end requiring drilling screwing tightening/untightening, Some forward of the the forestay fitting, and it was extremely difficult working through that 4" hole. Later that year I fitted a sprit there so I 5200'd the 4" hole and installed a 6" round plate to starboard of the sprit. What a pleasure it was working with the 6" hole! I have 10 1/4-20 nuts to tighten in there and can now reach anywhere I need to! Can't send a photo, boats buried in a snow drift...
DS2 #6408 "Desperado"
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stemhead

Postby kokko » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:10 am

ChrisB does not list the year or model, but on Truelove I have access to the stemhead. I had to removed the panel above the bow flotation tank and it is a reach, but I have tightened my stemhead bolts.
DS1 Truelove
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Postby ChrisB » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:55 pm

Sorry, I had intended to include year and model. Mine is a 1980 DSII. It has a small (I'm guessing 4") round plate on the forward bulkhead inside the cuddy, no access on the foredeck itself. I'm going on the assumption that at least one of the tapped holes in the "L" bracket is stripped out and will require a nut and lockwasher underneath. Given that I have to do this blind, I'm thinking a 6" port on the foredeck is the way to go.
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Postby Alan » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:08 pm

Chris,

I've also got a 1980 DSII and I've been debating whether to put an inspection port in the forward bulkhead or in the foredeck.

Does your bulkhead inspection port not give you access to the stemhead plate? If so, that would pretty well convince me to put mine in the deck.
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Postby ChrisB » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:39 pm

Alan,

I would never be able to get my upper arm through the existing bulkhead port. Assuming I installed a larger port I'm concerned that I would be at the end of my arm's reach to get all the way to the bow. Based on the picture Sunbird posted of the backing plate inside bow cavity, I expect to have to drill through the "big glob of resin" that holds the backing plate to the hull so I can put a long bolt on the forward bolthole of the new fitting. It just seems so much easier to be able to do all from outside the bow.
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Postby Alan » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:22 pm

Hmm, good points. I'm probably skinny enough to get my upper arm into a 4-inch port, but then I wouldn't be able to see into the hole. And waving fingers just short of the hardware would be kind of frustrating.

For reasons now unclear, I've got two brand-new 8-inch ports sitting in my box of shiny stuff (they were probably on sale when I bought them). It looks like one of these would just fit the foredeck forward of the bulkhead. If I can confirm that, I'll probably install one of them there.
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Postby talbot » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:53 pm

I just did this repair. It wasn't bad. I put two #10 FH SS machine screws through the bow. I installed finish washers to make it look neat. I made the hole centers the same distance apart as a standard Schaefer pad eye, just in case I might ever want to install one there. I already had moved the floatation out of the way, and I could reach in and fasten them on the inside with SS Nyloks. The putty on the inside wasn't a problem. It had the consistency of chewing gum, and I just pushed it out of the way. After I installed the nuts, I mushed it back in place. I'm not even sure what it does. One thing: I did replace a poorly installed 6" inspection port with an 8" port through the forward bulkhead. That gave me enough room to reach in all the way to the stem.
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Postby Alan » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:01 pm

talbot,

Am I correct in guessing that the screws through the bow were placed one above the other, not side by side?

What's the vertical location of the inspection port in your bulkhead? Or, better question, since you've done this repair: What would you consider to be the ideal placement of the inspection port?
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Postby talbot » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:29 am

1. Yes, one above the other. Not sure of the exact placement down from the prow, and it's pouring outside so I'm not going under the tarp to look. I put mine a tad too high. If you go in at the very top of the bow, a long tytop screw may hit the stemhead screw coming down from the deck. I had to go get a shorter screw so that I could get the nuts on. It's not far in, but it probably varies with the boat. I think I used 2" or shorter.

2. I'm not sure of the ideal placement of the inspection port. A previous owner had done a bad job (jagged cutting and rusted screws) with a 6" port, so I just cut the whole thing out. Mine is pretty much centered in the forward bulkhead.
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Postby talbot » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:21 pm

Sorry for the typos in the last message. I thought of a reason to have the inspection port centered in the bulkhead. It's a compromise between having it as high as possible (close the area you need to reach), and having it in line with your arm. Keepn in mind you are doing this lying on your back or side, and you want a more or less straight line from your shoulder to the prow through the bulkhead. A centered port also puts you directly aft of the big U-bolt in the bow, which you might want to check and/or replace as long as you're in there.

--Talbot
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Postby Alan » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:42 pm

Typos? Gee, I've enver amde any of those... :)

Yeah, centering the port does make sense. I was debating it with myself, but I think you've got it nailed.

I can also see the advantage of placing it in the foredeck (and my measurements from this weekend tell me it will fit between the bulkhead and the bow).

However, at this point, I'm leaning toward putting the port in the bulkhead, rather than in the foredeck, even if I do have to work inside the cuddy. Part of this is because I discovered this weekend that the two forward stringers supporting the foredeck are cracking away from it on the port side. I'll reinforce them, but I don't want to do anything that might weaken the structure.

Besides, if it doesn't come out pretty, it won't be so visible.
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Postby talbot » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:51 pm

My thought exactly, about the cosmetics.

Broken stringers? Something else I have to worry about? I just got over the stemhead paranoia. Will it never end?

Let us know what kind of repair you come up with.
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Postby GreenLake » Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:16 pm

We had another thread here a quite a few months ago discussing the foredeck supports. (see Repairing cuddy stringers) That was for a DS1. But could be your DSIIs are similar. If the deck is firm when you walk on it, I wouldn't lie awake at night.

If it gives, it might be time for a reinforcement. If so, the suggestions in the other thread might be useful. Ctnidae had a number of nice pictures posted, but he hosted them on an external site, and they seem to be all inaccessible by now.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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