New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

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Moderator: GreenLake

Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:50 pm

thanks for the pictures. That is one sweet setup for a traveler. It's the most elaborate I've seen on a DaySailer.
It looks like your boat was sailed by someone who went in for some fancy controls. You should take it as a challenge to learn how to use them.
Clearly, the traveler is to be let out when you sail downwind, and with the additional purchase factor on your mainsheet, you may not have enough mainsheet to let the boom out all the way to the shrouds unless you allow the traveller all the way over - something you can try while you have her dry rigged.

Still don't see where your jib is sheeted (because the cleats that you tell me are for the jib seem to be the ones set up for the spinnaker).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:53 pm

i was actually just working on jib sheet cam cleats'i dropped 1 and 30 4mm balls flew everywhere,managed to recover 27 balls.......wasnt an easy task at all.had to pull apart the other one to see how it went together.now i gotta disassemble,clean em up before install.
what a pain to assemble.
and the elaborate traveler system works pretty smooth,the original owner must have alotta sailing knowledge...... :D.im actually in contact with him and he offered to make the 2 hour drive to school me and teach me the boat setup if needed,some pointers....what a nice guy.
the kid i bought the ds1 from never transfered ownership due to the registration not being signed by previous owner.so i took a gamble and bought the ds1 hoping to track down the registered owner.thankfully i had his name and addy on registration.messaged him on fb......he was happy to help and to see the ol ds1 was alive and well.i mailed him the registration along with a academy gift card to show appreciation.because honestly he had no obligation to sign it,wasnt his problem......it was mine.he sold her and was done 2 years ago.
he signed registration,mailed it back......now i see the notary put the sale date of 2002 instead of 2020.so i may need to go drive 2 hours to have her correct it.after all that ill take my paperwork to the main office of wildlife n fish in baton rouge to get the ds1 registered to me all in 1 day....lol.

anyway,2 pics show where the jib cams were when i got the boat......right infront the spinnaker cams.
Image20200712_123806 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Image20200712_123811 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
and pics of the asembly of the 38mm harken cams.
ill search to see if i can find/buy replacement parts......may be cheaper than buying these new.
cam springs under the lower red cover
Image20200712_114949 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
all the parts
Image20200712_120409 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
2 rows of double stacked 4mm balls.....not easy to keep in place. lots of foul language used during assembly :lol:
30 4mm balls per cam.
Image20200712_121256 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Image20200712_121913 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Image20200712_122408 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Last edited by igotit on Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:49 pm

Ok. interesting. If you have access to the guy who put it all together, that sounds great and do get him to give you lessons. Would love to hear precisely how he's using that fancy traveler.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby RobH912 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:08 pm

Itotit - thanks for posting more pictures, pictures are great, especially your traveller pictures.

As GL has said very complex set up, I can’t quite figure out from your pics how your traveler works. Once you get sailing / talk to person who set it up it would be great if you could post a description on how it works.

Thanks!
Rob


DS1 #2444
Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:19 am

RobH912 wrote:Itotit - thanks for posting more pictures, pictures are great, especially your traveller pictures.

As GL has said very complex set up, I can’t quite figure out from your pics how your traveler works. Once you get sailing / talk to person who set it up it would be great if you could post a description on how it works.

Thanks!


Actually a few hours ago i was talking to the original owner,turns out hes not the original owner.guy i bought the boat from told me a mixed up story.
The guy im talking to owned the boat since 2003,he bought it from a guy that was a serious racer who loved the sport.he setup the traveler.
I asked him the purpose of the traveler setup and this was his answer.
"The traveler allows you to fine tune the boom when sailing high into the wind. For instance, if you are in a port tack (boom on left side) you can move the traveler to the starboard side to help center the boom and get a little more speed"
I then asked if it was fine to leave the traveler centered,this will allow 1 side of the traveler bridal to stay slacked.

He replied "Yes leave it centered but make sure the adjustment line running across the center of the cockpit is cleated on both sides. It’s okay for the traveler to be slack on the upwind side"
My understanding sofar
The rope that crosses the cockpit (the adjustment line)is setup like a continous loop,if i pull on the port side it moves the traveler to the port,strb side....to strb all from 1 rope instead of 2 seperate lines.simply grab 1 continous line(pretend its a tiller)you can grab the adjustment line in the center,pull either left or right to shift over the rear traveler bridal.steer the bridal port or strb with a single line.
Later on ill draw up an overhead diagram of how this system is laid out.
I couldnt tell you if this design was self made,or an old pros trick.
But may as well learn and share as much as i can.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 14, 2020 2:40 am

Yep. Makes sense. It's a somewhat sophisticated system, but not non-standard (only non-standard as far as DS's are concerned).

Start out with it centered and wait until you've had some experience with the boat. Then, with a friend watching your GPS, you can experiment going upwind in decent wind (but not so strong that you have to fight to keep the boat balanced). You can try to see whether adjusting the boom in a bit further makes the boat faster (jib would have to be tight, but not "bar tight" and barber inhauls would be on the inner position).

Enjoy that you have a well-rigged boat, but understand that it demands you step up to it in the learning.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:39 pm

I figured for now it would be best to stick to the basics and learn it for awhile,before i worry bout trying to get speed.
Over the years ive learned slower speeds are my comfort level.
Young me wanted speed,the present middle aged me wants to go slow and enjoy the ride and time.
Im in no hurry to cross the lake.
Small update
I went to the harware store,bought the remaining stainless bolts i needed to install the jib cleats,and the stainless keeper ring for the front shroud.after thats installed my ds1 should be ready to sail.
So now its just on me to recap a few articles ive read,a few youtube vids to rewatch.a few dry runs on hoistings sails and rigging.final inspection then launch.....just not sure what day yet.
Sofar ill be going solo,which is probably not the best idea.ill have my dad in his boat nearby incase i capsize.so a rescue plan is in the works.
This weekend my brother n law wants to try out fishing from a kayak for the first time,so i may make a deal with him.ill loan him a kayak and get him out there to fish if he can come for first sail.....just for weight and someone to yell at lol.
igotit
 
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:20 pm

...just for weight and someone to yell at lol.


:D

Looks like you are all set. "Speed", you will find, is strictly limited on these boats to something under 6 knots - except if you manage to get yours on a plane. You might have enough wind for that where you are; someone here wrote that on a plane the DS feels more stable in high winds (can't confirm that, but you might like to read up about it).

Anyway, sail trim that lets you sail a bit faster/higher up wind is very much about getting somewhere upwind fractionally better not high speed :)

Good luck and enjoy her on the water!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:31 pm

GreenLake wrote:
...just for weight and someone to yell at lol.


:D

Looks like you are all set. "Speed", you will find, is strictly limited on these boats to something under 6 knots - except if you manage to get yours on a plane. You might have enough wind for that where you are; someone here wrote that on a plane the DS feels more stable in high winds (can't confirm that, but you might like to read up about it).

Anyway, sail trim that lets you sail a bit faster/higher up wind is very much about getting somewhere upwind fractionally better not high speed :)

Good luck and enjoy her on the water!


thanx....i cant wait,and will post up as soon as i take her out.

quick drawing of how my traveler is setup.this winter ill pull it all out and get exact measurements of the length of rope used.
in the drawing you can see if i pull the live end to port side,my rear traveler goes over to port.
now we all should have a better understanding of how my traveler works.
the slack from the traveler bridal ties both blocks together so that they pull off of eachother,and pulls the bridal over with it.
hope ive name everything clear enough to understand.and i dont yet know my knots.....that would be more helpful for someone trying to replicate this setup in the future.

Image20200714_192618 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr

2 seperate rope i crudly traced out....lol
Image20200714_212848 by Nick Pellegrin, on Flickr
Last edited by igotit on Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:53 pm

Now id like to research how a regular rear traveler works and is setup.....lol
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:01 pm

The way yours is rigged: pull on both: triangle gets smaller (lower). Pull on one, let go the other: apex of triangle moves to one side.

The way mine works: instead of the place the lines cross like an X between the two blocks in your diagram, I have this:
2758
It's a simple sheet bend to tie the two ends together, but one side (right side in this photo) is doubled, so that what sticks out of the knot is a loop. That loop is hooked over a hook to keep the traveler centered. With your setup, you just cleat it so it's centered and forget about it until you've sailed 5-10 times and might be ready to work on details of sail trim.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:11 pm

GreenLake wrote:The way yours is rigged: pull on both: triangle gets smaller (lower). Pull on one, let go the other: apex of triangle moves to one side.

The way mine works: instead of the place the lines cross like an X between the two blocks in your diagram, I have this:
2758
It's a simple sheet bend to tie the two ends together, but one side (right side in this photo) is doubled, so that what sticks out of the knot is a loop. That loop is hooked over a hook to keep the traveler centered. With your setup, you just cleat it so it's centered and forget about it until you've sailed 5-10 times and might be ready to work on details of sail trim.


I visualized that setup when you explained the hook behind the coaming.
Good to know.
My traveler pretty much does the same as yours then.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:02 am

Correct, except mine has only two setting: center and far over to leeward. Yours can be set to windward, as well as adjusted at intermediate points. The settings to windward or slightly to leeward of center might be of interest in some situations; if your sailing skills have developed to the point that you can tell that difference, you'll have achieved something. Until then, keep it centered upwinde (possibly release to leeward when going downwind) and focus on more basic aspects of sail trim until you have them down.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby igotit » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:25 am

Definatly gonna leave it centered for awhile,priority will be learning the basics and develope instint on what to do,and when to do it.it will be a fun,rewarding journey just to learn the basics.
Once again thanx for all the info and advise.

1 more question,do i need a line to pull down the jib,or is it not really needed?
My boat came with an extra block where the front shroud connects.
It was either used for the spinaker,or i was thinking a line that clips to the top of the jib to drop it quickly without running onto the deck.
In my yard the jib drops itself with no wind thou.
Im assuming with wind and resistance she may not drop without me pulling down on the sail.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:16 am

Search the forum for discussions on jib downhauls. User jeadstx rigged a downhaul and I believe wrote about it.

If it's windy, you're better off with something. You'll need a block near the tack (bottom front) of the sail (you can even tie it to the sail) and the a line that goes from the head of the sail, through that block, along the deck and to a cleat. @jeadstx had his cleat on the side deck near the cuddy roof (or possibly on the side wall of the cuddy, can't remember) on the SB side.

The block above the forestay is for the spinnaker.

Terminology: all three are stays. The forward one is always the forestay, the side ones are technically called the shrouds (but are sometimes called side-stays). The term "shroud" comes from the old sailing ships which had several parallel stays on the side of each mast that were linked by "ratlines" which gave the whole thing a lattice like appearance which made the sailors think of a burial shroud, hence the name. As we have single ones, no ratlines, some people don't like the old term for them and/or alternate terms.

Just the way the lines are called "sheets" because they control what used to be sheets of canvas (the sails) and "halyards" on the old ships used to "haul the yard" to which the sails were attached; name carries over to any line used to hoist a sail with or without a yard.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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