Mast angle

[RobH912]

GL thanks for your thoughts / observations on the data.

Yes certainly potential for Loos tool error, or data collection errors. Also added additional time collecting info vs. just loosening the shrouds and stay, move the mast butt, tighten everything back taking measurements along the way, but certainly now look at mast tuning process differently. I did see some mast bend at 180 lbs. column E.

I have thought of jib and rudder also. North DS racing jib, older but in good shape... I am thinking that more forestay tension and also tighter halyard might help. I have started to watch rudder making sure the lower blade being down / cleated... but don't think that's it.

So back to the mast, I'll sail it this weekend see if I can feel any difference / improvement to the helm. If not, I'm going to move the mast butt forward. Got out my copy of Sail Power by Wally Ross. https://www.amazon.com/Sail-Power-Complete-Guide-Handling/dp/0394727150. Read the chapter on tuning, weather helm, etc. a lot of good info.

Thanks!

[GreenLake]

You wrote you had a chance to sail another DS? If so, that should help you getting a feel for this.

[jalmeida51]

Hi Rob,

I set my shrouds at 180 lbs. and forestay at 150 lbs. I have a hinged tabernacle so the base of the mast is in a fixed position. I have a slight weather helm which I like. I check the tension every few months and usually it is right on. One time checking with the Loos Tool there was about a 60 lb. difference in tension between the shrouds. I realized I installed the tool improperly on one of the shrouds. Reinstalled the tool and tension was right on. At 180 I have a slight rake aft.

I have 2 jibs 1 is class legal the other is cut down about 25% for windier days. I have not noticed a more weather helm when using the smaller jib. I do sit forward as much as I can using the tiller extension. You would know if the rudder blade was creeping up by the feel.

Best of luck, John

[Ceej]

Hi Rob,

I have a new to me Daysailer II that I have been trying to optimize and had some pretty heavy weather helm also. I used the NS tuning guide as a starting point. I have 140lbs in the front shroud and i think 220 on the side shrouds. Leeward shroud starts to go slack around 10 knots of wind. With this tension, I wasn't able to get any pre bend in my mast as mentioned in the tuning guide (silver proctor mast). My measurements from the mast top to the transom are a couple inches longer than recommended, but there was no way to get them to 25'1" with the shrouds I have. Mine is closer to 25'3". I always wonder if the recommended measurements take into account the length of the shackle and length of knot/splice that the measuring tape is hoisted on.

I didn't notice a big difference in weather helm after adjusting the standing rigging, the two things that made a big difference for me were a new jib and centerboard adjustment. The sails that the boat came with were pretty beat, I think the old jib was so ineffective that it made a pretty big difference on the overall CE. Heaps of jib luff tension is also important. I have also been letting the board drop all the way down and then pulling it back up a hair and cleating it. Going upwind with the boat flat has the helm pretty neutral now.

What club are you racing out of? On the cape? I'd be interested in having a go in a DS fleet.

[RobH912]

Thanks for sending all the replies on shroud/stay tension, jib sail info that you shared.

I think I’m going to set tension to 180 shrouds, 120 -130 front stay… which is a lot more than I’ve had them. Tight jib halyard.

Yes I found that the Loos tool needed to be connected properly or didn’t get a good reading. Odd though, I was thinking 180 but had gone around the other day and took tension measurements on four other DS I sail with and they varied but were around 150 - 160 on the shrouds / 130 front stay. These are really good sailors, have had DS many years. I need to ask some of them why not more tension?

Unfortunately have not had a chance yet to sail one of the other DS. I’ll sail mine tomorrow, but forecast is for light wind.

Ceej - thanks for thoughts. My jib is in good condition, and next step I’m now going tighter on forestay / halyard. I’m going to pay some more attention to my CB, thought I had an issue last week but that’s ok. Yes I sail / race with DS Fleet 15 / Orleans Yacht Club. Are you on the Cape? Send me a PM.

Thanks

[RobH912]

Update: Last Sunday weather had forecasts for some thunderstorms moving through late in the afternoon and wasn't sure if we would get out to sail. After we all checked about six different weather apps we felt like it was safe to sail. While the T-storms stayed away we did get very gusty winds, and some apps have those gusts over 20+ mph.

It was challenging sailing, so not sure it was the best test for my weather helm, BUT it did feel better to me... less weather helm

Summary - Moved the mast aft one slot, tightened shrouds to 160 lbs, front stay to 130 lbs, jib halyard tight, double checked rudder set in down position, and that the center board down.

Need to get out and sail on not such a gusty day to get a real sense of the feel of the helm and need to get out on a friend's boat to see what balanced helm feels like.

Thanks !

[GreenLake]

On more thing: CB can be slightly forward of down. On my boat, when the lever is below horizontal. Something easy to confirm at the dock if you can see the CB.

[bilbo]

Funny thing is that you never realize the board is up when you're IN the boat, it's painfully obvious when you're watching from OUTSIDE the boat. Case in point, Maine again, a few years back, I was happily watching a Daysailer cast off from a Camden marina (surrounded by million dollar yachts) when I noticed them going dead sideways, straight into a mooring field of more million dollar yachts. I hailed them as loudly as I could, "Hey Daysailer! Put your board down!". A look of surprise then hurried fumbling with the CB handle. Did I get any gratitude, a knowing wave of the hand between like-minded DaysailOrs? Of course not! The skipper shot me a look of pure venom, plus I got the finger from the crew. I think they didn't appreciate being "shown up" in front of the entire harbor...

Bottom line, whenever you feel the boat "acting funny," the first thing to do is look at the CB handle. Yet another lesson relearned this season!

I'll second, or fifth, or whatever we're on, the massive effect the CB has on the boat. Our first sail this year the CB was kinked and only was down about 2/3 of the way. The boat was erratic and would fall off at the slightest hint of a gust. I thought there was something wrong with the rigging from being out of practice through the winter, but then thought through a mental diagram of forces on the boat and figured the CB may be off. When we finished up I hopped in the water to check the board and sure enough it wasn't down all the way. I have a DSII so checking position is not as straightforward, but the effect of CB position on the boat would be the same I would think.