To Join or Not o Join the Daysailer Association

[SaltLakeSailer]

I tried to help someone gather information prior to purchase on a class of sailboats (Soling) whose web-based information was only available to members. This was a real disappointment, and prevented decent rigging and performance information from being available. As a result, she got into a thoroughbred racer when she needed a more forgiving first boat - like a Daysailer for instance. I would not like to see this happen to the Daysailer class web-site, especially since the DS is a family-oriented sailboat more suited to picnics than racing (does that irk anyone? just an opinion, OK).

I love to be able to feel the pulse of the association, and when I do show up and attempt to race against others at a formally sponsored regatta, I will happily join the association and (expect to) pay all fees prior to participating in the event. But for those of us who tap into (and hopefully contribute to...) the information on these pages, please do not add another level of difficulty to access it.

FYI - reading the information on these pages helped me to: know that this was the right first sailboat for me, locate one for sail in Phoenix, buy it, improve it, and get better at sailing it. I would pay something for all this information now that I know what I know . Before "I know what I know now", I may have been deterred by an up-front fee.

[ctenidae]

I haven't joined for several reasons, primarily I just bought the boat a month or so ago, secondarily I'm not planning on racing. May join at some point, anyway, but I'm not sure I'd want to be a member of a club that would have someone like me as a member...

I have a feeling the question was asked in part because of teh column on the design changes spreadsheet "Daysailer.org member?" I put that column n to differentiate between information gleaned from this site, and therefore verifiable through direct questions, from info pulled from other sites (such as pictures of boats in tehe web where maybe a sail number and a couple of design elements are visible).

The discussion on Association membership is valid, to be sure, and worthwhile. Just to be clear, though, that was not the intention of the spreadsheet. I did go through the sheet and change everyone with a screenname to yes, since, by definition, if you have a screenname you are a Daysailer.org forum member.

[GreenLake]

Gary,

it looks like you got your wish and kicked off a lively discussion.

The bottom line for you is to increase your membership. Appreciated, and from the answers you've got, you made at least a few "sales" this round.

What can you do to make this more effective?

I would start with the bylaws of the organization. If you want non-racers as part of the DSA, make it official in the formal objectives of the organization. That gives the activities you do in support of cruising less of a feel of an afterhtought. Likewise, put the association's relation to DSIII owners on better terms. As you can see on this forum, the same individuals may be associated with more than one boat type. (As the DSIII is no longer produced, there's no reason to fear dilution).

I would encourage you to extend the material about the DSA that is visible to visitors of your website. As it stands, someone practially has to join to find out what the organization is doing beyond scheduling of races.

For geographically dispersed individuals you offer the "independent fleet". My immediate reaction was that this is a contradiction in terms. A fleet defines a local community - by definition, the independents do not have a local community. My next reaction was to wonder what, if anything besides a convenient book-keeping bucket, might be going on in terms of acitivities in that "fleet". (Incidentally, I share K.C.'s doubts about the newsletter as a major benefit - but obviously that's "sight unseen").

I'm approaching this from taking you seriously in your statement that the DSA values independents (and non-racers). To me, it appears that, before this discussion, you and others simply haven't communicated that very well to anyone coming at the organization from the outside. Your efforts to recruit additional members will probably become more successful to the degree that the DSA becomes more transparent in these areas.

Perhaps the best thing to offer independents is simply the virtual community represented by this forum. If that's the case, the radical conclusion would be to redefine the independent "fleet" as centered on this forum and run it on voluntary subscription basis with regular "invitations" to sign up.

I can't find a conclusion better than K.C.'s closing statement:

I see the DSA forum as likely the best promotion for this boat and the class. Having benefits made apparent through this forum would be a good way to promote a membership campaign, I would think.

[mistermoon]

I'm of two minds on whether to join the class association. I just bought a 30 year old DSII and am finding the help and encouragement here to be a very valuable. In fact, one of the reasons I bought a DS was due to the existence of this resource. The support offered by the forum makes these boats more desirable than the competition.

I do intend to race my boat, but not one design. Instead I plan to race in a PY handicap club against mostly Catalina 22s, Mac 26s, and a few other small centerboarders. My longer term plans for may boat are to enter it in the Everglades Challenge, a 300 mile "adventure"race from the mouth of Tampa Bay to Key Largo.

Racing one design would be fun if it were an option in my area. One design racing around here is nothing but Thistles, Snipes, Y-Flyers, and Lasers. How does class association membership benefit those of us who don't have fleets?


In my mind, this website and forum is one of the best marketing tools for the DS and the DS class association. Lock it up for members only and you lose that benefit. It could even have the opposite effect of what I think you are trying to achieve, namely increasing class membership and participation.

[GreenLake]

I used to travel regularly to another city with a great NPR station. Because I was already a member at home, I didn't feel like taking out another membership. However, I was enjoying their service. When their next membership drive coincided with one of my stays, I sent in a donation - I made up a "visitor"-level membership amount and paid that.

They were a bit confused and sent me a nice reminder that for the full amount, I would get their valuable program guide every month. But I wasn't interested in that, and felt that donating something instead of doing nothing was the correct response for me.

In that sense, I'd like to encourage all of you who feel that this forum is a great resource, but who don't feel that they are ready to join the DSA, to send in a (generous) donation that reflects your support for and appreciation of the service you've received.

[cmschulter]

I fear that if a "membership" is required to post and monitor the information this site delivers, the quantity of activity will decrease dramatically. I am a new sailor, 52 years old and learning every season (2 so far). I have refurbished my DS1, so much of the information I obtained and used was from this site. (Thank You) I fear that if payment is required, "newbies" such as myself would hesitate to fork out the cash. I am willing to join the DSA to help do my part to keep this site open to the public, available to all who find this site.

[Bob Hunkins]

I don't think that making this site available to members of the association only would help the class to get more members. I also think that the usage of the site would drop off.

Instead, I would ask everyone who has comes to this web site and has gotten something from it, either met someone, learned something, found the boat, anything, to join the class association. It's only $35. That's cheap.

Bob Hunkins

[K.C. Walker]

I don't think that making this site available to members of the association only would help the class to get more members. I also think that the usage of the site would drop off.

Instead, I would ask everyone who has comes to this web site and has gotten something from it, either met someone, learned something, found the boat, anything, to join the class association. It's only $35. That's cheap.

Bob Hunkins

I agree wholeheartedly! $35 is cheap for the information and community that I have gained from using the site. I think making the forum public has a lot to do with it's worth. A gentle reminder from time to time, as a membership campaign, seems to me like the best approach. Of course, I don't know what the ongoing expenses are but it's not like anybody's "making money" with the Association. I don't know this for certain but I assume that this is an all volunteer organization, am I correct?

So how many members does it take to keep this class vibrant (which is important for all of us)? I can't see any of the activities that go on now as not being worth while. Though I see people grousing about racing, I think racing adds a lot to a class. After all, the designer of the boat, Uffa Fox, was a serious champion for racing dinghies. Racing a boat helps to realize its full potential. No, the DaySailer is not an all-out racing machine like a Thistle or an Albacore, but that makes it more accessible to the rest of us. It's a nice lively boat that I have grown to like quite a bit since I first started sailing it last year.

I have checked out a lot of other sailboat association forums. I think if you investigate a little bit you'll find that this is one of the best.

KC

[Mike Gillum]

I totally agree with Bob Hunkin. Regardless of whether you own a Day Sailer I, II or III there is benefit from the Class and this website therefore I encourage you to become a member of the Day Sailer Association. It's so inexpensive, has so many benefits and think of all the friends you can make!

[Roger]

that is the question I asked myself so many years ago, when I first acquired a DS II. I explored becoming a member at the time but given that I was in another country, and 1000 miles from the nearest fleet let alone another daysailor, and that I would be an independent member, I did not see any benefit to joining, although the quarterlies were intriguing. Being a part of the forum however quickly got me involved with other members sharing information. I gained enough confidence to eventually restore my boat, and even provide some upgrades. I shared that information at no cost with numerous others online, but soon my e-mails were starting to pile up with numerous requests for pictures, and information on understanding, maintaining and repairing the DS II. I started saving the email responses and building them into 'response packages' but the demand grew even more. I decided to write a book on the subject and sell it to people on this board for not much more than my cost. That was my contribution to the DS communtiy, and I continue to do that long after I had sold the boat, and moved on to a larger boat that better met my needs. I don't frequent the board as often now, but like many others that have moved on, still feel an obligation to help fellow DSer's along with a picture or advice, and of course continuing to make the book and CD available at a price that makes my effort worthwhile. If there were to be a fee to have people like myself be part of this forum, I would not likely be here. I just don’t think you’ll do the DSA and Daysailer brand any good if you charged to use this site. My suspicion is like many other paysites, usership would dwindle.

I have sold my books in almost every state in 39 of the lower 49, as well as internatioanlly. One of the items that has become clear to me is that although there are several pockets of DS owners around the US, the significant information is that most owners are well separated by distance, and like myself belong locally to a very small and eclectic sailing community. For example there was only one other DS II owner in my province when I owned mine, and his was for sale because he was moving up. When I look at owners by state, and using sales as my index, I see the coastal and great lake states as having the most sales, yet half of the states only have 5 or less sales.

Don't get me wrong with my rant! If you live in an area where there is an active fleet, race or cruise and can benefit from membership, then I would highly encourage you to join.

It would be a sad day however, if contributing to the forum became a pay to contribute issue. As another poster said, you need to find another way to keep this site viable.

On a similar note, commercialization of the internet in my mind voilates the very premise of its existance; that is for all to share, free of cost, and without excessive regulation, and for the mutual benefit of anyone who is lucky enough to visit our site.

I do hope that my free expression here has not offended anyone, but since the question was asked, I do feel a responsibility to state my opinion.

[algonquin]

How many paid members are there currently on the role ?? Brad

[algonquin]

How many paid members are there currently on the role ?? Brad

Also are the dues one time or yearly ? The application isn't clear. Brad

[Bob Hunkins]

The dues are yearly. Even so, it's cheap. I do need to put reminders up on the front page more regularly about that. Hopefully life will get back to more normal for me with the start of the new year.

The membership roles have been steadilty declining each year. I don't recall the most recent numbers but I think it was in the neighborhood of 400.

Another thought that occurs to me. There's no reason those who don't want to race could organize some non-racing events like rendevous or other events. There just needs to be a person to act as a spark plug. If my knowledge of DSA history serves me Hans Gottschalk who started the DSA was not a racer. He just loved the boat and wanted to meet other owners. Of course, when you get several together on the water, a race breaks out.

One thing I do recall about Independent Day Sailers. Very often they choose to be so, and are not really interested in travelling woth their boats to meet other Day Sailers. Nolan Richards who was our VP for independents for many years would report that nearly every time he contacted indpendents they were very nice and friendly, but staunchly independent.

The internet has made that easier. In the old days if you were an independent, you had to travel learn about your boat and get ideas for optimizing the rigging if there was no one local and more experienced. Doing that is still better than looking at photos.

[Baysailer]

From my personal experiences, I was a site member and checked this site regularly for quite a while before I got my DS. The people and information on this site infulenced my decision.

I also believe in joining a class if it makes sense for me. I've dropped out of classes in the past because they were to race centric. From what I've seen the DS class acknowledges that most Daysailers daysail. Bob's idea of low key regional gatherings is a good one. I'd travel to or host gatherings. I'd be glad to sail with others on my waters, they could come with or without their boat. Of course if kicking around the lake by themselves is their thing, we're cool to that too.

Fred

[K.C. Walker]

Of course, when you get several together on the water, a race breaks out.

Of course, I'd only admit to that if I came out ahead.

KC