Refinishing coamings--the fine points

[seandwyer]

Wow--that's interesting, guys. When I removed the coamings they all had some sort of weather stripping glued to them. Sort of a flat, 1/2" piece of white, syntheitic rubber with a wider bead on one side. The previous owner had glued these to the back, making elaborate cuts in order to get the stripping to adhere to some of the curves and bends the coamings make as they stay in contact with the rail (especially towards the terminal point where they meet the cuddy). I had been wondering if I should replace them with something similar, but having read what Greenlake has observed I wonder if it is necessary. Did the boat originally come with any sort of "gasket" between wood and fiberglass? KC--do you feel the caulk adds a bit of cushion, or is your reasoning purely based on keeping water out? Any idea how easily the 3M product will release when (and if) you ever need to refinish?

I was talking to a friend this evening about this and how I have obsessed over every step. If this was an antique door frame, it would have been stripped, sanded, and refinished a LONG time ago. I find the emotional fear that goes with this reassuring that the process is meaningful.

[GreenLake]

For sealing the coamings to the deck I used something like "hatch tape". Not very expensive (I needed three rolls) and much easier to apply than caulking. Just run a strip along the edge of the deck and then push the coamings against it with the screws. It does not need fancy cuts to make it conform (and even where there are gaps as you continue with the next roll, those aren't as critical for this application. Because the coamings are bolted on, the adhesive is just there to hold the tape in place - again, not critical. I assume the foam will eventually fail (they always do). I had to remove the coaming for the transom so I could fix a spot of damage from a dragging tiller after a few seasons (3?) and I don't recall having to pay attention to the tape - might have just reused it (not optimal if seal was crucial, it isn't, because we are not sealing a hole in deck or other large, watertight surface, but just a crack that's a few inches away from a huge opening ).

PS: I'm sure there was some "fancy" solution by the factory, but without a high resolution photo of a brand new DS1 we'll never know, I'm afraid.

[GreenLake]

Overthinking boat repairs is half the fun. The smaller the boat, the more thinking is required, so it feels like a "big & important" job.

Wonder how the RC sailboat people ever get anything done.

[seandwyer]

Hi Guys,

I wanted to check back in and let you know that the project is pretty much over, and pretty much successful. I stripped, stained, epoxied, and varnished everything and reinstalled with all new stainless hardware because so many of the screws had their heads stripped out. Also, I epoxied on blocks to the ends of the thwarts to take up the space I had--if you will remember, there was way to much gap. Everything has been tightened up now. My only concern is in how soft the varnish seems to be. I feel like it scratches way too easy. Any thoughts on that?

I'm posting pictures here, too.

[seandwyer]

and here'es a picture of a thwart showing the blocking on the centerboard trunk side.

[seandwyer]

Thanks again to everyone for all the help and tips. if anyone has questions, just let me know.

Now on to the next project...and that is another sad, sad thread.

[GreenLake]

I wanted to check back in and let you know that the project is pretty much over,.... My only concern is in how soft the varnish seems to be. I feel like it scratches way too easy. Any thoughts on that?

Good job! Nice pictures!

I can't be sure because I don't know what you used, but one thing that could be happening is that the varnish will take some time to fully harden. Some things do take a bit of time.

Nothing beats LPU for final hardness, that's why I used that on my boat - but it makes it harder to remove any of it should that be needed for touchup. So there is always that for compromise.

Normally, outdoor finishes are more flexible so that they can better withstand the moisture and thermal expansion of the wood. With epoxy sealed surfaces, that's no longer an issue, so some of that flexibility is wasted, and the tradeoff, which is less scratch resistance is then just a downside, no longer a tradeoff.

First, see whether your varnish hardens up over the next week or so. If not, live with it, and be ready to retouch it as needed. That's all I can think of right now.

[K.C. Walker]

Sean,

Looking good!

I know it seems a bit counterintuitive but putting your varnish work out in the sunshine will make it polymerize and cure out much faster. Even though it has UV protection in it, the UV really does help curing. Two-part urethane finishes should not be waxed for a month (because they are considered green) and they are really not fully cured for 6-9 months and these are the fastest curing finishes, aside from polyester.

[tc53]

Hi All,

I'm just reviewing this thread years hence as I prepare to refinish the bench seats, thwart, and coamings on my old DS 1 (Sail 318). I had thought all of this wood was teak (the bench seats and thwart look like they've weathered like teak would), but I suppose, based on what I've been reading about this vintage of DS, some or all of it may be mahogany. In any case, I will need to do some stripping because a previous owner had painted all of the wood at some point. Most of this is now worn off, but some will have to be stripped. I do not have a heat gun, so I had planned to use a brush on gel stripper of some sort. Any recommendations here?

As for refinishing, it sounds like the "epoxy envelope" method may be the most durable, but while I found plenty of references to it in this thread, I did not find a basic explanation of the process. Can someone point me in the right direction for this?

I live in the mountains of Northern CA, having moved from the Chesapeake area last summer, and so the boat is now strictly a fresh water boat, dry sailed exclusively, and covered entirely when not in use. Would you say an "epoxy envelope" method is still preferable, or can I get away with something simpler?

Thanks,

tc53

[GreenLake]

On stripping. I've had moderate success with a heatgun, but have brought floorboards, coamings and thwarts to bare wood with an orbital sander and a really coarse disk (many of them, 24-36 for starters, then moving up).

What helps is a set of scrapers (slightly round the corners so they don't dig in). Best if you get ones that are simply bits of angled iron that you can sharpen yourself with a file. The fancy ones with separate blades are not necessarily easier to use - their blades are too straight.

If you can take apart your seats for stripping, that would make it easier.

About epoxy sealing. The upside is that it really cuts maintenance down, if you keep the boat covered when not in use, you can get many years out of one coating. The downside is that redoing the entire coating, when that becomes necessary, is a bear. You need to cover the epoxy with something that has UV blockers in it. I've used a waterbased PU - that gives a really hard finish. By putting that on epoxy, you don't get the cracking from moisture cycling, so the PU has held up nicely, and it simply won't scratch.

Because of the eventual downside, many people like penetrating finishes (oil). You have to touch them up constantly, but doing so is a simple task. If you are the kind of guy who putters around the house with a paintbrush, then a penetrating finish might be your thing. You just have to wipe down all the woodwork at the start and end of each season.

A regular varnish is a bit like the worst of both worlds. It won't last and touchup isn't as easy as with an oil. Also, it's a poor choice for exposed corners, like on the coamings. I've had outdoor coatings just flake off. They also like to flake off around the screws because there's stress and more moisture cycling.

Everything else should be already mentioned in the thread.

Because wood is wood, you can certainly learn a thing or two from checking out other forums, like for wooden boats. At the end, you'll have to decide what fits you.

[tc53]

Thanks, Greenlake, for the helpful summary and links. These, and a more careful review of the entire thread, have given me what I need to at least begin. I expect I will go with the epoxy envelope.

Yesterday, I removed the coamings, bench seats, and thwarts from my older DS 1 (according to the plate: "Made by Mariscot Plastics, Fall River, Mass, for G.D. O'Day Associates, Hull # 3079, Class # 318). This is the model that has full wooden seats and thwarts. The coamings and support "shelves" for the seats were/are attached to the wall of the flotation chamber with screws. Do you know if there is any sort of backing inside the chamber to accept these screws, or were they just screwed through the fiberglass chamber wall (I'm guessing about 1/8" thickness at most)?

I will be replacing all of the coaming screws when I reinstall as most of the originals simply sheared off when I tried to back them out. If I use the same hole locations, in some cases I will have to drill out the remaining screw pieces, so I may have to go with a larger diameter screw. I am facing a bit of the same issue with the port side bench seat support "shelf," which I have not removed but also has some sheared or broken screws and will need reinforcing before I reinstall.

Also, the section of coaming from my transom, had a split and so came off in two pieces. Would you suggest I try and rejoin these with epoxy? The coamings and seats are all intact, but there are some cracks that should probably be refilled before I sand and refinish. Can I use the same product for both?

[GreenLake]

Epoxy makes an excellent glue - and you can either use one that's formulated for gluing (so it isn't so runny) or use the same you do use for coating but then it requires a bit better fit of the parts (not nearly as tight as wood glue or you're going to starve the joint). When epoxy is used as a glue, only very light clamping (to keep the parts from moving) is required. After filling a crack or the gap in a repair you can tape it on both sides with masking tape. The tape will come off later, but will keep the epoxy from running back out before it can set.

As soon as the glue has set up a bit, you can continue coating the part in epoxy - no need to wait for a full cure; excess epoxy, when green, or still a bit tacky, is easily scraped off with a sharp blade - easier than sanding it later.

The coamings (note that words does not related to "comb" in any way) are fastened by wood screws that go into the carlins under the side deck (on my DS1). With time, the holes in the carlins (these are pieces of wood about 1.5 x 1.5" in diameter) widen and one needs to either go to thicker screws, or, preferably restore them by:

• taping off any area that should not receive epoxy
• filling the hole with epoxy (not too runny)
• waxing the screw
• screwing it in the hole
• letting the epoxy set around the screw, forming threads

If properly waxed, the screws will remain removable.

You can use the same technique to restore screw holes in other, hidden pieces of backing wood - as long as the damage is confined to the immediate area around the holes - if you have rot or dry rot, this method is not going to lead to a firm anchor for your screw in crumbling wood.

Any non-sagging epoxy would be fine, or if you have the runny kind you want to use for sealing, then thicken it with wood-dust, for example, or any number of fillers, to get a soft paste to fill the holes with before inserting the screws.

[tc53]

Thanks, again, Greenlake. Do you know if the backing wood, or carlins, that accept the screws for the bench seat "shelf" support are a continuous strip of wood running inside the floatation tank or if each screw goes into a separate piece? I'm asking because I was considering adding two or three additional screws to these supports on each side.

For the coamings (thanks for the correction) and the epoxy restoration method, it sounds like I should do that for each of the holes that need it prior to attaching the coamings themselves, getting each hole restored, then backing out the waxed screws in order to install the refinished coamings. Am I understanding that correctly?

Thanks!

[GreenLake]

Your config is different than mine (I have a '63). In mine the carlins are strips that run along the inside of the side and rear decks, but they are visible if you stick your head under the coamings (mine has the flotation in the seats -- can't advise on yours without pix).

Each hole, but all in one sitting. Wax screws, measure and mix epoxy, mix a bit with wood dust etc, fill each hole and insert screw, use leftover epoxy (that part not mixed with wood dust) to start sealing the coamings (first coat). After you are done with that, the epoxy should soon start to gel, after a bit you remove the screws. While the epoxy is still green (slightly tacky) and without sanding, add the second coat to the coaming boards. Use a new batch of epoxy for second coat, obviously (or it would have gone off).

System Three epoxy is "blush free" if mixed correctly (accuracy of mixing by volume is very important for epoxy, that's why you mix a larger batch for both screws and first coat), blush free means you don't have to wash the surface of cured epoxy before coating with clear PU or other varnish (to get the UV protection for the epoxy -- add a generous number of coats of those). For other brands check their literature.

[mcqmga]

Guys - Good info on refinishing combings - I have a DS1 67 and it is missing a few of the exterior buttons/snaps from the combings - The wood appears to have weakened and now the " holes have been rheemed to the point that it won't hold the replacement screw in buttons -
What would I use to "fill" the holes? ( I assume they must go back in same position in order to match cockpit cover button snaps)
Bob