Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

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Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby GuamJulia » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:06 pm

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"Before"
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Hi All, I am a member of the Marianas Yacht Club in Guam. We pulled a boat out of the swamp and believe it to be a Daysailer I. There is no builder plate or any other markings that we have been able to find. All of the wood has rotted away or is missing. We also have no idea how to properly rig it, although we did locate a mast and a managled boom. The centerboard and rudder/tiller both seem serviceable. Everything else will have to be re-done. Check out the before pic I posted above. There are very few sailboats here, so we are hoping to restore this on for use at the club. It is mostly solid, but will need a lot of work. It probably wouldn't be worth it to attempt this for most people, but it's expensive to import boats here. Currently, we only have lasers and optis, nothing for families to sail together at the club and we have big plans for our little daysailer.

We have gotten out all the plants, and most of the sand. The first step is to replace the thwart to stabilize the centerboard trunk, and to rebuild the transom. We also need to fiberglass a few places of the flotation tanks/seats where they have seperated from the hull. Any advice would be great on these, or other issues that you can see Check out my blog of the first couple work party days for more pictures and information:

http://www.wheretheheckisguam.com/categ ... ation-myc/

Here is a few recent ones with stuff cleaned out:
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby rnlivingston » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:09 am

You certainly are taking on an interesting restoration. Having just finished restoring a 1966 Daysailor 1, I understand the challengers ahead. It is definitely a Daysailer 1 with a few differences. The centerboard lifting and lowering system is different than the handle we have on our boats. It looks like someone tried to enclose the cuddy at one time. Your right about starting the project with new thwarts. I had to put my boat on its' side to pull the boat together to attach the thwarts. I would guess the stringers that stiffen the hull have rotted and need to be replaced. Once you have finished these two items, the hull should be back to its' normal shape.

Keep us up to date on how the project is going.
Roger Livingston
DS 6872
Mariner 4096
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:04 pm

For structural repair you need to replace the wood that was underneath the narrow side decks (carlins) and the wooden coamings that lined the inside of the cockpit opening (and were screwed into the carlins). Also, check for rotted wood in the transom.

For carlins and coamings you might want to search the older threads on this forum.

The CB seems to have a control line exiting the top of the trunk. I have not seen this mentioned in any of the discussions on this forum. Wonder whether that is a retrofit...
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby jeadstx » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:21 pm

You can get parts for the Day Sailer from D&R Marine http://www.drmarine.com/categories.asp?cat=64 or Cape Cod Shipbuilding (current builder). The DS1 comings are similar to those used on the Rhodes 19 and Stuart Marine is the current manufacturer. Stuart has new and used comings that with minor modifications should fit the Day Sailer. Here is a used set http://www.stuartmarine.com/used-parts/ ... ard-set-2/ and a refurbished set of used comings http://www.stuartmarine.com/used-parts/ ... board-set/ .

There are plans on the website for the floorboards as well in one of the posts.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby GuamJulia » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:24 pm

Thanks for all the help! I knew that the cuddy was a modification, but I didn't relaize that the CB control line was not original. It seems to work well, on land. Has anyone seen this before?

I will drill and check the stringers, if they do have some rot has anyone tried epoxy injection instead of replavement? Replacement seems like a pretty big job, with a lot of fiberglassing.

There is a backing plate for the pintles and gudgeons that is totally rotten in the transom. The transom has also separated from the hull/deck joint. I was hoping to cut and remove the wood from the inside, and fiberglass in a new piece without damaging the original outer hull skin. Do you guys think that will work? Am I correct that only the middle section of the transom is wood, the rest is solid glass?

Great link on the used coamings, that could save tons of time. Has anyone manufactured a new boom? We have some bent mast pieces we might try to cut up.

Keep the advice coming! I don't think I would be attempting this without having spent time researching on this forum, it's really an amazing resource.

Cheers,

Julia and MYC
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby jeadstx » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:33 pm

D&R Marine has booms and parts. If you have the gooseneck and end cap off the old boom, I imagine you could build up a boom. The specs are on the site. I believe the boom is suppose to be 10'-4" long.

Do you have any pictures of the forward part of the centerboard trunk to see if the original lever operation was modified. The hump in the middle looks like it was added on. It may have been modified with due to a lack of available parts at the time. If it was, it could be converted back with parts from D&R.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:22 am

About the CB - no need to "restore" anything that actually works.

About the transom. Cut, replace, glass. Yes.

Stringers (in the floor) same.

Carlins / coamings -> read old posts, probably in the repair section of the forum. We just had discussions on these.
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby GuamJulia » Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:36 pm

Hi All -
Thanks for all of the help so far. The yacht club APPROVED the project, and we have been moving forward. It's been slow going as this is our rainy season, but we have removed all the broken pieces and have begun reinforcing the hull deck joint. One of our volunteers is planning to screw a thick piece of line all the way around to act as a bumper, as this will be a trainer boat.

It appears the hull deck joint is stapled together? Do you guys have this?

We still have no clue what year this boat is, any ideas would be great.

Also, does anyone have a pattern for the seat? I have been unable to find actual measurements to go on. Ours is completely gone.

Also, Does anyone have any close up photos of the original arrangement of the carlins that support the side decks?

Thanks in advance!

Julia
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby GreenLake » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:03 pm

GuamJulia wrote: Thanks for all of the help so far. The yacht club APPROVED the project, and we have been moving forward. It's been slow going as this is our rainy season, but we have removed all the broken pieces and have begun reinforcing the hull deck joint. One of our volunteers is planning to screw a thick piece of line all the way around to act as a bumper, as this will be a trainer boat.


The original had plastic rub-rail, for the same purpose. Sounds like a plan.

It appears the hull deck joint is stapled together? Do you guys have this?


Can't say. The actual joint is hidden under the rub-rail on the outside and from the inside, some previous owner applied a layer of glass for extra strength. I'd go for the glass (at least in the foredeck area).

We still have no clue what year this boat is, any ideas would be great.


Look in the thread on DS1 design changes. There's a spreadsheet that list boats with known numbers and years and the small design changes from model year to model year. That might help you pinpoint it. Alternatively, take more detail pictures of anything that shows small design details. The logos, the chain plates, where the jib sheet fairleads might have attached, the CB trunk details, transom details, including from the rear, etc. That might help the sleuths here. Many of your photos show large views with the interesting detail features hidden or cut off.

Two features that I don't recognize are the CB uphaul on top of the trunk - that looks more like a DS2, unless that design was used some years. Also the dual drain in the back and the very pronounced center rib along the rear of the cockpit floor.

Also, does anyone have a pattern for the seat? I have been unable to find actual measurements to go on. Ours is completely gone.


What you are referring to is the "thwart" that connects the bench with the CB trunk. It's just flat board. The width and depth are kind of indicated by the notches in the seat and the length is given by the dimension between bench and CB trunk. When you measure that try to have the hull supported in a way that it doesn't splay open or is being pushed shut. I suspect the yard of having cut mine based on what fit, rather than fitting a fixed, pre-measured size.

There should be some L brackets to support the thwarts on the CB trunk wall. If yours are missing, any home grown replacement will do.

Also, Does anyone have any close up photos of the original arrangement of the carlins that support the side decks?


No photos, I think (I'll look). The carlins are something like 1x1 that run directly along the "lip" of the side decks and transom. They were lightly glassed. I would epoxy seal the replacements (all 6(!) sides plus any and all holes need sealing) and glue them to the decks with epoxy, glass isn't going to do much.

In addition, there are plywood "knees" (essentially triangular pieces) between hull and side deck. Glued to the hull. Every 18 to 24", I think. I would, again, seal these with epoxy. Whether you should saw the long side in a hollow curve is up to taste.
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby GreenLake » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:28 pm

Here's a photo that happens to show carlins and knees.

It's taken from in front of the seat bench, the camera pointing upward. The bow is to the right.

You can see

1) the forward end of the carlin, and the pathetic attempt at wrapping it in glass. I've outlined the end.
2) the first knee. Outlined.
3) a hollow stringer supporting the side deck in front past where the carlin ends. (You can see the rear end of it, and the horizontal line of shadow where it extends forward, about 1" inside the hull.

Carlins.jpg
View showing the underside of the side deck in front of the seats, front is left.
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That's the best I can do.
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby jeadstx » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:50 pm

The hull and deck were stapled together, but there was also a rail for the rubber rub rail to attach to stapled with it. If you go to the D& R Marine site you can see a picture of the rail and bumper for reference.
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby GuamJulia » Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:06 am

Thanks for the quick replies and the detailed pictures! Any more pictures of any wooden structures would be great, as we have very little to go off of. Luckily, we have some very skilled people who can surely invent something, but I feel better giving them something to go on :) I will get some more detailed photos posted, I need to take some new ones now that we have sifted through some more layers of dirt. The centerboard trunk will pull string seems to be an add-on, there is a clear line where the fiberglassed onto the top of the trunk. We have decided to leave it alone for now and see if it works.

The main concern is that while the line pulls the centerboard up just fine, there is nothing to pull/push it down, or hold it there. We are hoping the weight of if will hold it down, but this seems a little sketchy. Hopefully it will be clear once we get it in the water.

Thanks Again,

Julia
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby K.C. Walker » Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:50 am

Julia,

Great project…. Being on a remote island definitely lends to creative solutions.

The boat is a 60s boat, if you have not figured that much out. It's not the earliest version because it does have seat flotation tanks, the early ones had wooden seats. If it does not have a serial number embossed in the transom then it's not one of the few 70s DaySailer 1's.

I'm glad you figured out that the centerboard trunk was an add-on, cause that one had me scratching my head. I think that you are right about the problem of keeping the board down, unless it's also been modified and is very heavy. It originally would have had a lever arm to raise and lower the board.

You're better off using epoxy for your repairs rather than polyester. It bonds much better to old fiberglass. It seems like your already on that track, though.

The stringers had balsa wood cores that tend to rot out. You can cut the top of the stringer out with a skill saw set to a shallow depth. It's definitely a nasty job but it's quick…. And yes, it will definitely trash the blade. Do protect yourself from fiberglass splinters and dust. Once the top is off you can chisel and scrape the residue out. The problem with trying to inject epoxy in is that it's almost impossible to dry them out without opening them up. The bottoms on these boats tend to go a little soft, so it wouldn't hurt to make the stringers a little taller. One of the earliest boats has won several national championships and still places high in nationals. They put in taller stringers and added a few, as well. These are amazingly restorable boats.

If the bottom is out of shape (not unlikely)… once you cut the stringers out and have the thwarts in and before you glue in new stringers, you could drill holes in the bottom and screw battens lengthwise (1 x 4's or 2X4's) to the exterior of the bottom to pull it into shape temporarily. This usually would only be in the flat area from the centerboard to the transom. Once the stringers are in and set its easy enough to remove the battens and putty (epoxy) the holes.

Using a piece of an old mast for your boom should work fine.
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby GreenLake » Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:56 am

Julia,

have you checked the gallery in this forum? You should have no trouble finding lots of pictures showing the wooden parts. At least the ones that are externally visible, my picture shows some of the "hidden" wooden parts.

There are three more hidden areas. One are the stringers you discussed with K.C.. Another is a support under the foredeck that also serves as the backing plate for the foredeck cleat. If that is rotten, the foredeck will flex when you stand on it, and the cleat could rip out. Getting access requires someone small and agile, but there are no other difficulties about replacing it.

The last one is in the transom. About 6" wide on boats of your vintage, it supports the gudgeons for the rudder (and stiffens the transom). It is usually glassed in, but tends to rot. Repair for it is about the same as for the stringers, except, like the foredeck support, it's not balsa. You should look for something a bit more crush resistant, as for the foredeck support, because of the throughbolts for the gudgeons.

The externally visible wood are the coamings (they line three sides of the cockpit opening) and this vintage DS has floorboards. the coamings (or some version of them) are required for strength. The floorboards are present for two reasons: to keep feet and gear dry if the boat has taken on a small amount of water, and to distribute the load a bit. If you want to recreate them, there are people here on the forum that have actual plans for them. You might contact Tim Webb. Or you could design your own from something a bit more rot-resistant and less in need of maintenance (artificial docking). The general design is simple: just a set of parallel planks with a cross connectors below them that also serve to raise the planks a bit off the floor. On the original, they are divided into four sections so that they can be lifted out easily. The "split" between fore and aft sections is underneath the thwarts. (The floor boards do not extend all the way to the transom, only about as far as the aft end of the seats.)

The final piece of externally visible wood on the 60's DS was a shelf underneath the deck at the transom, it sits high enough that you can reach underneath to get to the drain plugs. It's not structural, but a convenient place to stow some gear so it will stay mostly dry. The original design is very heavy and overbuilt, so I'd hesitate to suggest that you copy it. If you like the idea of a shelf, just construct something light and sturdy that will fit the space and that can be inserted and removed by wrestling it under the deck past the ends of the seats.

As I said, for all of these, there should be enough photos in the gallery (and the users' albums in the gallery) for you to get the general idea. For example:
1551
1289

The first one shows cup-holders in the thwarts (those are not original, but a nice idea). The second one shows the shelf, but also the weatherstripping between hull and coamings (make sure it's closed cell and can't hold water) as well as the CB handle that's original to the DS 1 of that vintage.
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Re: Daysailor I in Guam - Need Help With Restoration Attempt

Postby jeadstx » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:56 pm

Attached are a couple pictures of a O'Day Rhodes 19 hull/deck joint showing the staples. The Rhodes 19 and the Day Sailer I hull/deck joints are the same. One picture shows where the rail for the rub rail is missing along with the rail in place. The secong picture shows the rub rail and how it attaches to the rail along the hull/deck joint. The rub rail is suppose to go all around the boat, one continuous piece from the stern around the bow and back to the stern. My Rhodes 19 had most of the rub rail missing, but provides a good illustration of how it goes together. D&R Marine sells both the rail that goes over the hull/deck joint and the rub rail.

John
Attachments
Rail - Staples for Hull Joint.jpg
Rail - Staples for Hull joint. Staple go thru rail as well as hull/deck joint.
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Rub Rail - Rail.JPG
Rub Rail in place shown with attachment rail exposed.
Rub Rail - Rail.JPG (18.86 KiB) Viewed 15403 times
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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