1967 Daysailer centerboard question

[sailrowdavy]

I just bought a 1967 Daysailer & I dropped & refinished my centerboard. This board has the square hole & the lever has the square pin with a nominal .56" dia round pin on the end. The inside of the trunk opposite the handle side has a round hole which appears to be the same dia as the round part of the lever pin. However, on re-assembly I can't make the round part of the pin reach all the way across to the opening in the opposite side of the inside of the trunk. So, the board will slide somewhat off the square part of the lever pin towards the opposite side of the trunk and be very loose in the trunk. Is there not supposed to be some fitting that goes into the opposite side hole in the trunk and into which the end of the round end of the lever pin would fit holding the board securely in the trunk? It looks like lost a part somewhere. If not, how does arrangement work?

[GreenLake]

Don't know. On my boat, someone had that round end drilled and tapped and then screwed a bolt from the opposite side. An upgrade I would recommend, but you'll need a machine shop to do it for you (unless you are practically a machinist yourself).

Here you can see what this looks like from outside the CB trunk.



(You'd also need a bit of reinforcement to the CB trunk wall, a few layers of fiberglass cloth with epoxy resin would do, unless the stock CB trunk is already reinforced there.)

PS: the photo shows this with the old washer - suitable washers are sold by DR Marine (they match the ones on the other side).

PPS: here's the fully assembled other side:


I assume you do have that little triangular piece with the three bolts?

[Lil Maggie]

Bear in mind, GreenLake's boat was modded by its P.O....my boat is a '66 and the port side of the CB trunk looks like this:


notice there is no hole on the port side where that square plate is glassed to the trunk's wall....if the handle wasn't monkeyed with it should fit across, however, the stock centerboard does have quite a bit of slop to it. If properly aligned, the CB handle should seat itself on the opposing plate and kept in with the triangular plate and bolts. Best way to set the CB in place is by careening your boat, like so:

then have someone assist you wiggle the CB/handle in place and hold it there while you tighten the plate/bolts
If the handle doesn't reach across, you might need a new one (check out DRmarine.com)
hope that helps
Mike

[GreenLake]

Looks like there's the little reinforced patch on the Port side even in the stock boats. So, the modification is limited to having someone drill/tap the opposite end of the handle, drill the CB trunk wall, install with large rubber washer, small metal washer, and bolt.

I would recommend the mod, but it's clearly not strictly needed (at least for some boats).

It should be possible to measure things in the opening to make sure there's no underlying issue (like a deformed CB trunk or something). Also, if the installation didn't proceed to tightening the bolts on the small triangular plate, it could be that the CB is too far on the starboard side for the opposite end to engage.

[sailrowdavy]

Thanks for the replies which answer some of what I need to know. The handle was bolted with the triangular plate putting some deforming pressure on a new gasket. My handle pin sections measure 2.39 inches which is approximately .28 inch short to seat in the hole on the port centerboard trunk interior. So, I definitely have a problem. I need to know the correct pin section measurement. I emailed D & R Marine seeking the dimension before I order a replacement. If a replacement is the fix I will gladly take that. If any of you know that measurement I would appreciate your letting me know. I can make a modification but would like to know where the problem is before doing so.

[GreenLake]

I would consider the upgrade/modification as it was done on my boat. (It's worth noting that from the DSII on forward the CB is no longer supported only on one side). It is true that most of the support comes from the board wedging itself in the trunk when loaded (the handle pin serving only to pivot and to keep the CB from sliding out), but I still find it a strange design decision.

Unless you are using a wildly oversized gasket I can't account for over a 1/4" shortfall as result of installation. That makes it look like your CB trunk could be gaping a bit. Does it look deformed? Is the trunk wall straight or bowed out?

Amazing as it sounds, the tolerances in building these boats were much larger than we normally expect from an "industrial" product; however, there are plenty of examples of deviations.

FWIW, the inside dimension of my CB trunk is 1.75" at the bottom opening.

[sailrowdavy]

Thanks GreenLake, my gasket is .25 thick, the centerboard walls are basically straight, and the spacing at the handle hole is about 1.75 ", & my handle "axle" length is 2.40". I may have mis-stated previously. I have a gap of just under .115 between the handle end and the wall & then the recess seems 3/16" deep. I have been reading the forums on this subject and it seems others state that their handle "axle" doesn't reach all the way across either. I'm a little confused. If the DS1 board is designed to be supported on one side only, does that mean the handle section that goes through the board wasn't meant to reach the other side & fit into the recess in the port interior centerboard well. I noticed in the forum posts that others were concerned about the board sliding off, somewhat,the square axle section due to the loose spacing of board to walls. I could make the your mod & with spacers keep the board on the handle axle at least.

[GreenLake]

Looks like you have 5/16" total play. About par for these boats

Nothing is going to "slide off" because the way the CB is wedged into the trunk the minute you load it. Try to picture what the top end of the board will do (It's about 9-11") when you pull the tip to SB or P.

The mod seems to work and is something many people have done. It's obviously something that takes a bit of getting right (need to get bronze bolt as well, not SS) and needs professional drilling/tapping. However, as the new DS2's no longer have a one sided support, my view is that it was something O'Day may have done to cut corners, or something that was popular on smaller boats, or who knows what.

I don't think you'll be able to pull the tip to contact, even with a bolt, but you'd get it supported.

Your boat, your decision as they say.

[sailrowdavy]

OK thanks. You have answered my basic question of whether or not what I have is normal and how this design works. I'm use to boats like C-15's and have never seen a centerboard arrangement like this before which combined with the forum had me very concerned. So, no real worries & I'll make a modification that works for me.

[GreenLake]

Glad we could help. Let us know how you are doing with the boat (when you get it on the water again).

[Lil Maggie]

Question: Have you tried to fit just the handle in the hole, and see if indeed it makes contact/seats on the other side of the CB trunk?...By your measurements, and assuming your CB trunk didn't deform, you should be able to slide that handle home (it should sit flush over the gasket when properly located). Then try again with the board in place; if your boat is sitting on the trailer it's a bit tricky to set it right...if the boat is careened on its side it's a lot easier to set it right. I remember the first time I dropped my stock CB it took a bit of fishing and wiggling the handle until it set in correctly.

It is incorrect to assume the DS 1 CB is "only supported from one side"...that would be the case only if the handle is not seated all the way in the opposite bushing/plate. The CB handle is secured from one side with the triangular plate and bolts, the other side of the handle's tang rests and pivots on the opposite side's f/g'd plate, and as long as there is pressure from the triangle plate keeping the handle from sliding sideways, the CB is indeed
supported" on both sides of the CB trunk.


sketch not to scale

Here's what a properly seated CB handle should look like (no gap between handle/gasket/CB trunk)



So, like Green lake said, drilling and tapping a bronze bolt on the port side is an option; patching up the hole on the port side is another, as long as your handle's tang sits on the inside of that hole, you're good...patching that hole will keep the water out, so will a bolt and a second gasket...whatever works for you

cheers
Mike

[GreenLake]

Very nice sketch and explains the little bump on the P side.

[BananaCollision]

It is incorrect to assume the DS 1 CB is "only supported from one side"...that would be the case only if the handle is not seated all the way in the opposite bushing/plate.

My 1963 DS1 centerboard handle doesn't have any little round section that could seat into any bushing on the port side, nor any broken-looking bit. It has a square end cut flush and smooth that fits into the centerboard with no possibility of resting on the opposite side. I also didn't notice any plate or reinforcement that anything might fit into. Is this somehow broken/modified, or were some of the boats made without this support in your sketch?

I can't say it works very well; it does the job but the centerboard tends to get jammed in the trunk and needs to be wiggled loose to go down, and whenever I put pressure on the handle water will dribble in through the gasket.

[GreenLake]

@BananaCollision: does your DS have the little "bump" on the P side? And I am curious about whether there was an eventual design change.

Mine does have the bump, but the CB handle/pin setup was modified by a PO, so it would likely be impossible to determine whether the bump ever contained a bushing.. When I last had it apart (a few years ago), I don't remember seeing the CB pin protrude on the other side of the CB; that's why my understanding about the original one-sided support matches what you write.

The only way I can date my boat is with a number that's a plausible sail number (not class number) that was entered in the registration records (the year recorded, 71, is patently implausible. If correct, it would make my boat follow yours closely (other design features tally with tentatively assigning '63).

If the CB pin was short in '63, what is the purpose of the little bump and, if not present from the beginning, when did they introduce it?

The bump, if it works like in Mike's drawing, is, in a way "compatible" with a "short" pin (not the other way around, of course). There are some indications that O'Day would use fittings that were available even if not 100% matching the design. According to Rudy at D&R Marine, my boat has spreader hinges from a Javelin, something he says he sees. However, molded in features would presumably be part of every boat until the next change to the molds.

[BananaCollision]

No, no bump for me on the port side of the centerboard trunk. Just smooth, flat, and featureless.