1967 Daysailer centerboard question

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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby Baysailer » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:37 am

Like BC I have a 63 model and there is no port side bump and the centerboard handle is cut flat after the square and is only fit through the one side. Since my handle is bent I bought a replacement from a forum member and it does have a round pin cast into the handle. I'll take some pics later. I haven't changed it yet since I need to drill out the port side, reinforce, place a bushing and cover it with new class. So there was a design change at one time post 63.
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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby Lil Maggie » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:27 pm

before doing anything, shine a light over the handle hole and see if you see a hole or a recessed cavity on the opposite side of the CB trunk. Or with th e board off, you may be able to stick your hand inside the CB trunk (from underneath) and feel for a dimple. If there isn't a hole, you can order a stock piece of aluminum (Mc Master Carr is where I got my stock), all-purpose 3036 aluminum will be fine, I would get no less than 3/8" thick plate; locating and drilling a hole on the opposite side (if there isn't one) might be tricky, especially if later you want to replace your stock CB with a thicker foil (like I did), [url]that hole needs to be square[/url]

Once you drill through the glass, you want to drill your plate but just enough for that tang on the handle to sit on, oversize it by 1/64th, so if the tang diameter is 1/4", drill the aluminum to 9/64"; put the handle through the CB trunk and locate your plate by placing it on the protruding tang. You can epoxy the plate to the trunk at this time, just make sure you beeswaxed the $hite out of that tang so it won't stick to the plate...still, mark it, glue it, clamp it, then pull the handle out, just in case (epoxy sets quick). Once glued in place, you can lay a couple squares of f/g cloth/epoxy over the plate, provided you're happy with its location...
You don't really need to drill/tap your brass handle; the three bolts/triangular plate on the handle side do all the holding you need...as long as you have a place for that handle shaft to pivot on the other side
Of course, just a suggestion
Good luck with it
Mike
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
DS 1 #2313
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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby Baysailer » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:26 pm

Mike,

For me thanks on the suggested approach, especially the aluminum reinforce plate. I've had the board off so know there is no dimple or hole in place now. Centering and sizing the hole is probably the most critical and easiest to screw up. I just put the DS away today so have all winter to think about it.

Fred
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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby GreenLake » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:03 pm

BananaCollision wrote:No, no bump for me on the port side of the centerboard trunk. Just smooth, flat, and featureless.


Interesting. Let's add that one to the "DS 1 Design Changes" thread. See whether we can pinpoint when that got added.
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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby GreenLake » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:51 am

Baysailer wrote:For me thanks on the suggested approach, especially the aluminum reinforce plate. I've had the board off so know there is no dimple or hole in place now. Centering and sizing the hole is probably the most critical and easiest to screw up. I just put the DS away today so have all winter to think about it.


@Fred, agree that suggestion by @Mike sounds like an interesting one and easier than to drill and tap the pin.

The epoxies I tend to use are not quick setting (because many quick setting ones have issues with ultimate or long-term holding power). However, waxing the inside of the hole and the CB pin would prevent them from bonding; it doesn't have to be "bees wax", but floor wax or hard wax (like Fleet Wax) used in polishing would work as well. Just be a little generous...
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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby baggywrinkle » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:28 pm

Getting back to CB project....

I think I better convert the CB pin system to a bolt going thru both sides of the CB trunk. Seventy pounds of former Thistle CB hanging on the 'one sided' DS1 pin fitting sounds like an invitation for a leaky pin. Or worse.

Here comes the written sketch, please advise if I am missing something, or if can improve it.

I'm thinking of reinforcing the trunk's port side with glass/epox first, then a piece of SS sheet, and then maybe a slice of that slippery UHMD plastic for good measure. Then, (in a drill press) drilling a pilot hole thru the old square pin. Then install the pin, which will help steer the drill bit while drilling the pilot hole onward thru the reinforced port side of the trunk. Then lop off the short square lug part of the original pin. The rest of the pin is needed to seat in the fitting in the trunk's starboard side. The new pin will pass thru the old pin.

Then increase the new hole size to 1/2 or 5/8 for an SS bolt. This bolt head will now do the job of the triangular plate. The new pin (bolt) will pass thru a 1/4" SS plate reinforcing (inside) the new CB head. I looked into using all bronze, as I'm kinda stuck with the starboard side bronze fitting, but why break the bank? Zincs can be placed close by. Stainless 1/4" plate happens to be free. Bronze plate, not so free. Prices were.....Ahem. Wow.

Now thinking of incorporating into the stainless reinforcing plate (in the new CB's head area ) an attachment point for lifting gear. That would keep the lifting rig higher and more forward, in the head of the CB, rather than further aft. This would keep it away from that pesky seaweed and those mischievous mermaids. A tackle/drum system would be used for the lifting rig.

We are talking lifting seventy pounds, from CB trailing edge, near its forward/top end. Maybe about 8" away from (below) the new pin. Not the best leverage. Crazy? How does the lifting rig idea sound please?
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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby GreenLake » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:21 pm

Too complicated?

Just drill the back of the square pin for a bolt from the port side (on my boat that bolt uses a 3/4" wrench, if that tells you the diameter of the shank...)

Provide some sort of bushing and reinforce with about 1/8" (?) of laminate around the area (perhaps 2-4" square). On your modified boat, the CB trunk wall is already well-supported in general, all you need is localized support.

1042

You can leave the triangular plate in place and if you don't want to use the handle, grind it off to where only a disk remains.
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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby BananaCollision » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:53 am

baggywrinkle wrote:Seventy pounds of former Thistle CB hanging on the 'one sided' DS1 pin fitting sounds like an invitation for a leaky pin. Or worse.


Baggywrinkle, is your centerboard really 70 pounds? Does "former Thistle CB" mean you took it from another boat?

Mine is maybe 10 pounds, tops. Feels like an empty fiberglass shell and makes a rattling noise inside when I shake it. Are these supposed to be serving as ballast or yours is a mod?
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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby baggywrinkle » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:44 am

BananaCollision wrote:
baggywrinkle wrote:Seventy pounds of former Thistle CB hanging on the 'one sided' DS1 pin fitting sounds like an invitation for a leaky pin. Or worse.


Baggywrinkle, is your centerboard really 70 pounds? Does "former Thistle CB" mean you took it from another boat?

Mine is maybe 10 pounds, tops. Feels like an empty fiberglass shell and makes a rattling noise inside when I shake it. Are these supposed to be serving as ballast or yours is a mod?


Yep. Seventy (73 before trimming to 70) pounds of Thistle CB. To me, the 17' Thistles are like 'Hot Rods'.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2943

If you did not know, Saint Rudy sells DS CBs that weigh 51-55 pounds. He of course knows they are "illegal" but people want more weight he said. Weight varies up to 55LBs, as they are handmade, he said.

The Thistle CB was not modified. But now it needs some tinkering to make it function as a DS CB. My DS is modified. Way modified. But my CB trunk is original.

The Thistle CB is nearly filled with tiny lead shot. Maybe some lead shot is rattling in your CB. Or maybe not, since you say only 10 LBs.

My CB project is at this other thread, link below. I went from modifying my CB because it would not retract fully, then to accepting a gracious offer of the Thistle CB instead. I was shopping for lead to make my 16 LB CB heavier, up to 50 LBs or so. Then the Thistle CB was offered. So, 70 LBS sounded pretty good as GreenLake had mentioned that DS CBs are known for being lighter than some owners would like. I think the 'legal' maximum is 25 or 26 LBs...?

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5741
Last edited by baggywrinkle on Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:59 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: 1967 Daysailer centerboard question

Postby baggywrinkle » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:57 am

GreenLake wrote:Too complicated?

Just drill the back of the square pin for a bolt from the port side (on my boat that bolt uses a 3/4" wrench, if that tells you the diameter of the shank...)

Provide some sort of bushing and reinforce with about 1/8" (?) of laminate around the area (perhaps 2-4" square). On your modified boat, the CB trunk wall is already well-supported in general, all you need is localized support.

1042

You can leave the triangular plate in place and if you don't want to use the handle, grind it off to where only a disk remains.


Thanks GreenLake !

Wee bit more complicated for sure, however since I shan't be lifting this CB with the square things..... True, the square pin could be a pivot without lifting, and it could function in a round hole in the plate, but that means less bearing surface, and there is that seventy pounds to consider, with the motion, and the stainless would be rubbing on the bronze. Drilling a bolt hole is easier than cutting a square hole in the SS plate which will be buried inside the head of the Thistle CB.

Today I figured out the shape the plate must be. I realized I could also incorporate a lifting point in the plate (kills two birds, or flying fish, with one SS plate). This will keep all the lifting gear out of the cockpit,except for one line if desired so no need to leave my cushion should CB need adjusting.
I'll probably not lop off the bronze handle as it is full of nostalgic value, a conversation piece and all, and because I may be eccentric. Just a tad. :wink:
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