Trying to date my boat.

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Trying to date my boat.

Postby Toad » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:35 pm

I have recently acquired a Daysailer and am trying to date it. There are no numbers/plates to be found anywhere.
This is what I do know.
It has wood combings. It has Bakelite genoa tracks and line stoppers. It has a fordeck with molded in “planks”.
It looks to have had an outboard well added (badly) by an owner after it was built. It has wood pads both inside and out on the transom where the rudder gudgeons pass thru. Seats are gone completely, but there seems to be no place where the thwart would have attached to the center board trunk. A mainsail she came with had number “963” but there’s no telling if it was for this exact boat.
She’s a sweet looking boat and I have all intentions of bringing her back to sailing condition.
Any help would be appreciated .
Toad
 
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:46 pm

Welcome Toad!

It would be a huge help if you could post some photos of your boat. While the earlier DS1 models do have wooden coamings, I am not aware of any DS models that have molded in planks or plank texture on the foredeck?

At any rate, please keep us posted on your progress, even if she turns out to be a day sailer but not a Daysailer! ;-P
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby GreenLake » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:10 am

Early boats do indeed have this "fake planking" effect molded into the decks. I have set eyes on one once, but it's not yours, because the one I saw did not have wood outside where the gudgeons are.

We'd love to give you lots of advice as you plan and get this sail-ready again, but as Tim Said, photos would really help. If in doubt how to go about that check out "Posting Images" in the "Forum Info and how to use this forum" section.

A sail number of 963 could just conceivably be original. (Or, if not, it's from a boat not much younger).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby Toad » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:31 pm

All my pic files are “too big”...IS there something I can do (I’m using an Ipad)
After removing some of the paint, I have discovered a red boat. This COULD be that I have gone too far? Thus far I have seen white, blue and green..
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby GreenLake » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:38 pm

You can upload your pictures to any picture hosting site and then insert a link (the site needs to support hot linking).

Or you can google around for apps that will let you resize images an ipad - I'm not a user of that platform, so no first hand knowledge.

Sometimes, when you mail images, they get resized for you. I know this works on Windows, so if you were to mail a copy to yourself and post that one...

But all of these ideas are covered in the thread I pointed to.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby Toad » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:49 pm

Thanks. I’m working on it (after reading the post you suggested) might take a while as I’m just not good with computers.
Toad
 
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby Toad » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:13 pm

247724762475247424722472

I think I got it....
Except for the wood timber installed under the cabin top (does not belong there) This is it today, with what fittings and wood taken off.
Toad
 
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby swiftsail » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:45 pm

About 1958 to 60
DS 307 "Security Risk"
DS 14024 "Flight Risk"
Live Slow, Sail Fast
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby GreenLake » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:58 pm

Very nice pictures. The CB trunk looks a bit oddly proportioned, but that may just be because the way the jib fittings are so far back. On later models they were placed forward of the main sheet block.

At this point it would help to know what kind of expertise you bring to this job, so we don't tell you things that you already know.

The need for thwarts may have not been understood right from the beginnig; I can't tell you whether I saw them on the other early model DS I've seen. But the seats were wood, so a thwart would just be an extension (tuning the seat into an L, if you want). (

I think the seats may have just connected all the way across and probably just had a bracket with a U-shaped notch to hold the top of the CB trunk. That would be the reason for the cleats being mounted that far back and the spot that is rubbed "bare" in front of them.

On modern boats, these thwarts are supported by being bolted into L brackets glued to the side of the CB. Easy to retrofit.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby Toad » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:23 pm

Whoa, that sounds like an early boat! Does that square with the sail number?
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby Toad » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:27 pm

As far as skills go. I’d call myself fair to good on most aspects of boat repair. One question...does that red look familiar to anyone? Stock color? Also, I’m a fan of “traditional” boats but also a fan of boats that sail well. I’ve sailed a Javelin and other Daysailers a few times but am more familiar with the Flying Scot. At this point, removing the old paint, exposing the home built motor well and generally cleaning to a clear starting point is the immedieate goal. Any pitfalls or advice of what to look (or look out) for?
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby GreenLake » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:18 pm

Yes, you definitely have an early boat; the sail number appears reasonably compatible with something of that vintage. If you decide to become a DSA member you can register your boat with that sail number and unless another boat is registered with it you'll get it "assigned" to you.

In terms of fast - relative to other DSs the older DSs tend to be the faster ones.

If you want to make your boat's hull faster you could add foam core to the inside of the hull to make it stiffer. See the thread "the core project" back in the repair/improvement section of the forum. Seeing that the boat is "gutted" anyway, this would be an excellent time to attempt such a major upgrade.

You should check the hull for any soft/flexing area. If none, you might get away with not doing anything, but the boat will not be as stiff.

DS1s normally have wooden coamings that line the cockpit opening on all three sides. They provide structural support and you should replace them with something equivalent. (Original wood sands to a samon hue, so mahogany rather than teak, I'd think).

Are you planning to construct wooden seats? Or use beanbags for flotation and comfort :)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby Toad » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:46 pm

Thanks for the answers.
I do have the (somewhat decrepit) wood combings. One seems to be good enough to reverse engineer to complete both sides. The stern coaming looks pretty straightforward. I and told they are part of the structural strength, so they’ll be replaced. (I like the look too).
I will read about the core procedure.
I have found no soft spots or any ‘glas damage to really speak of. One VERY small hole near the mast entrance, the small crack in the cabin top trailing edge and the nasty O/B well, that’s it.
As far as the seats go. I have not, as of yet, been able to locate a good picture of how they were built originally. I’ll admit tho, full, enclosed seats do have the appeal of flotation and storage. The jury is out on that until I can find good pictures.
It’s good to know that she is indeed a Daysailer. Kind of cool to see she’s an early one. Would like to know EXACTLY who and when, but I guess I may never know.
Thanks to all for the answers and support. We’ll get to sanding and inventorying what we have. We’ll check back when there’s something to show/ask
Cheers!
Toad
 
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby GreenLake » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:25 am

The strange piece of wood underneath the cuddy deck is not as stupid as it looks. That part of the deck is normally reinforced by a piece of rebar (!) glassed into the edge (a magnet would confirm its presence). On some boats that did rust and had to be removed and then something else needs to take up the strength.

Because there are many more of them, we (forum contributors as a whole) tend to be more familiar with the design details of the later generations. Therefore, I can't tell you whether the rebar was an original design feature or added during the first few years.

Your boat is different from the one early DS I have seen in that that one has the rear deck edge not in a straight line across, but it extends back out towards the rudder a bit in the center. As that would seem to require a different mold, perhaps that's something that got filled in for later versions. Just as they seem to have ground out the ridges that give the fake planking effect.

As for your sailnumber there is one owner that reports a sail number of 946 for a boat dated 1961. However, that boat has molded seats. (There are stories that the 'sail numbers' were not awarded chronologically, as they were not part of the hull number - the story goes that when the boat was done, someone would grab a set of sails, note their number by stamping it on the little metal plate and that was that. The sails, so the story goes were not shelved strictly by number).

So you could have a 1961.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Trying to date my boat.

Postby Toad » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:44 pm

Here’s a few more pics as we sand and generally clean up the DS.
24812480248224792478
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