New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Topics primarily or specifically about the DS1. Many topics are of general interest, so please use forum sections on Rigging, Sails, etc. where appropriate.

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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby tomodda » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 pm

Hi Nick:

Today's been a crazy work day, so apologies for what's going to be a quick glossary of terms rather than a real explanation. I very much admire and respect what you are doing as a first time sailor, it took me many years and much smaller dinghies to learn to sail by myself.

JIb: Daysailer uses a jib as teh foresailer, it's smaller than the triangle between deck/forestay/mast and has no overlap on the main.
Genoa: Daysailer does not use a genoa. Genoas (also called Jenny's) are equal to or bigger than the fore triangle and overlap the main.
Tacking - turning so the your bow crosses the direction of directly into the wind (eye of the wind). Since you cant sail directly upwind, you have to zig-zag with opposite tacks across the eye of the wind.
Gybing (also spelled JIbing) - turning so that your stern crosses the eye of the wind (and the bow crosses the opposite point, "dead down wind"). Be careful as the boom wil swing from one side to the other, and it can be violent if you dont control it.
Sheets - primary rope used to control the sails, there are two on the jib, going to the aft corner. One on the mainsail, usually going to the middle of the boom, but various ways to rig it.

Take a look at GL's psot on "Basic Techniques":

https://forum.daysailer.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=6280

A lot to learn, but he starts with some basic terminology. Sailing definitely has it's own language. Depending on your point of view it's either fascinating or frustrating. Personally, I like all the "nautical animals" - boats have horses, hounds, a mouse, worms, cat-heads, a rooster-tail, you can fish a mast, dog a hatch, rig a lizard, bear away, etc, etc... As you can probably tell, I see the fun side of the lingo!

Tom

Tom
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby igotit » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:26 pm

Very good info and terms,i have a genoa instead of a jib.somewher i have a pic with jib up,no wind and jid extends about 2ft past the mast.
Im assuming that makes it a genoa.pic on pg 7 of this thread.i kinda questioned if its a 120% jib....but never got clarification.but heard in a youtube vid that if the jib extends past mast....its a genoa.
But that info may not be correct.

I was nervous going alone,but wore my life vest while sailing,had my handheld radio,and also notified my father he may need to come get me 5 miles away by boat.
Called and checked in every 30 mins.

I thought about building a sailing dingy to learn on first,but figured ill use what ive got.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f2 ... 22033.html
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby GreenLake » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:47 pm

Nick, could be that you do have a genoa by the definition. However the standard DS jib has just a bit of overlap: the clew is not forward of the mast, but by my recollection it's nowhere near 2ft.

Now, if you're overcanvassed you don't want an overlapping foresail. Confirm with the measurement data on the DSA website (bylaws, chapter 3) that you really have an oversized jib. Then, if high winds are typical, consider getting a used normal sized one. That would then be like a reef in your jib.

For a reef in your main, you can get kits, from sailrite and perhaps other places. Any sailmaker will put a set in for you for about $100-150. You do not need a new main for that purpose. If your main is so old that it is really baggy, it may not be able to be flattened enough to sail well in higher winds. If that's the case, you may want to save up . . .

Here is what winds in the 20+ range looked for me. (Limited fetch, so waves not as high as they would be on a larger lake for same wind conditions)

2717

With a reef. You can see that there's a bit of overlap at the clew of the jib.

PS: good for you for having filed a sail plan w/ somebody who had access to a boat and could do more than just try to call the Cost Guard or Park Police.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby igotit » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:08 am

Ill have to pull out jib and get some measurments,with jib up i can pull the clew till its 2-3(dont quote me yet....may be a lil more than that)" from touching the side stays on both sides.
Twice while tacking the jib wrapped around the mast while in iorns and i had to go release her.
Shes definatly big.....but i dont know sailing yet and figured this was normal.
And to me it seemed fast for only 1 sail in moderate winds.
As for the main ive never deployed in wind use other than on land.wont know if its baggy untill i put her to use i guess.
I do know this boat was rigged by a skillfull racer,guy who owned it before referred to him as a serious racer with the need for speed and dedication of a devoted winner that wouldnt tolerate losing....lol

Everytime i go out into the lake alone i get with my dad first,and he does the same with me.anything can happen at anytime.
my radio is a baofeng uv5rx with aftermarket 20" antenna that can reach atleast 40 miles.
Theres a bridge on both sides of the lake so im always within 3 miles of an active 24hr bridge operater monitering channel 13 (freq 156.650.)worse case active coast guard station about 4 miles west of that lake.
Last edited by igotit on Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby igotit » Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:31 am

I did find useful measurments here
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1779
And a thread of yall discussing a genoa on a ds.
Lots if info here....many thanks to all that contribute.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby tomodda » Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:31 am

Nick:

Checked thru your video again, that's a very standard DS jib. Looks Tobe in good shape. Yes, I can see where a previous owner was a racer, or at least cared enough to minimize weight at the stern. That cut-out set of rudder cheeks. Can you post a better photo of it? Never seen anything like it, most ppl just drill big holes to save weight. Interesting...

Here's fingers crossed that you get some more sailing time soon. Hang in there!

Tom
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby GreenLake » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:31 pm

If the boat was used for racing then the sails would have had to conform to class measurements. Also, it would be less likely that they are in really poor shape as racers replace sails earlier than casual sailors. Mind you, they'd be well-used if the boat was sold at the point where new sails were indicated to a racer. All assuming that the sails are original and the only set the seller had, in other words, that he didn't have a good set and a "practice set" and sold or gave away the better set separately. Such things happen. But still, unlikely that he would have a non-standard sail.

Now, where I "race", it's not under class rules, so I probably should have gotten a genoa long ago for light wind days. . . but I'm not a serious racer.

Wishing you the best of luck for your next outing and some winds in the 10-12 knot, or even 8-10 knot range for some good practice with both sails.

PS: don't be afraid to go on the water in even lighter winds. In the sense of don't be afraid it would be a wasted day. The DS will sail, if less vigorously, even in light winds, and those lighter winds would allow you more attention on basic your sail trim. You know that you understand how to trim your sails when you can do it in really light wind when you no longer get the feedback from the tell tales, the boat heeling etc., so that you have to essentially "guess", but when you do it right, the boat will move, down to winds so light that you can barely feel them and a boat speed that barely produces a wake. It also trains your ability to feel the wind.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby igotit » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:00 pm

Thanx guys,im good with whatever sails i got...jib genoa....doesnt matter.
Ill get daytime pics of rudder cheeks tomorrow.being its lightened i didnt mind the extra 5lbs i glassed in the transom.
Im not worried bout speed,class specs or weight.i just wanna learn and ride.
At the moment im working by flashlight making a rear boom rest so that i can hoist main easier without having boom on the deck or the main line as a topping lift.
Once sail is hoisted the boom should lift atleast 4" above my rest,worse case i can fold down mybrest after i set sail.it will consist of a single bar with wooden shoe to cradle the boom.
I got some stainless bimini parts from another boat that ill utilize.we will see if it works and/or restricts me during sailing.easy to remove if it does.
I didnt wanna go for the crutch option.
Next up ill figure out a tiller tammer and a remote engine throttle,or figure away to add tension to the current throttle to stay put.
Id like to motor using the rudder to steer without having hand on tiller and hand on short motor tiller.
The throttle is spring return via spring in carb.
My motor works like the honda 2.3,idle is nuetral,past 1000 rpm she starts turning the prop.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby igotit » Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:01 pm

By the way....im very thankfull and appreciative of the feedback you guys are giving me.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby GreenLake » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:08 am

We love weighing in. All the discussions here are a way to challenge my own thinking and / or to solidify my understanding, sometimes bringing out from the intuitive by trying to explain it. Sailing is truly an activity where the learning never stops. Which is half (or some percentage) of the fun.

We were after your sail sizes because it makes a difference. A large genoa is a bad idea if you are overpowered. Which, as you remember, is where you found yourself (and kept your main down). That's different from agonizing over minor details of the sails. If you don't race, if the luff on the main is 2" too long, you just lower the boom. When you race, the sail's no good and needs to be replaced / re-cut.

Class rules and how far away you might be from them is just a way of understanding how far from a "typical" DS your boat may be. That's all.

I'll be interested what you can come up with as a solution for raising your main. I've not have had any difficulties raising it with the end of the boom at deck level. My gooseneck floats, so I'll raise up the boom about 4" above its stop with the halyard, then pull it down to the stop and belay the downhaul. By not trying to stretch the luff, working the halyard is easier, and when I hook my elbow into the sail above the boom, I can use my entire weight to pull on the luff, making that process easy.

I've noted that my newer sails have bolt ropes that catch more easily in the sail track, so I need to use one hand to guide the sail. That was less of an issue with the original sails. Not something I worry about. much. Many things sort themselves out with a bit of practice. You get the knack for doing something without using a special tool or crutch or whatever.

My motor (electric) does not have a spring loaded throttle. Neither did the trolling motor I used before. However, the new one does have a long throttle arm, so I don't need to sit in the back, even when, say, approaching a dock, where adjusting or cutting the speed is necessary (unless your motor allows your boat to plane, you'll probably rarely want to adjust speed while you are going, because even going at a good fraction of hull speed is pretty moderate.

Just read a suggestion to use the tube from an old boat hook to extend the throttle arm on an outboard. That doesn't solve your need to be able to dial in a fixed speed, but may be something to consider.

Don't know whether we discussed tiller tamers on this thread already. My favorite is the simple bungee cord, strung across the boat, right below the tip of the tiller. A second bit of thin bungee cord makes three loops around tiller and first bungee cord. That sets up some friction. Just enough to hold the tiller position against rudder forces if the sails are balanced. If I push the tiller, the loops will slide, and instantly remember any new position. The reason the athwart-ship line is a bungee is to accommodate the difference between a straight line and the circular sweep of the tiller. But also, it adds a bit of give to the system so it's not too rigid in the face of small disturbances (waves). In moderate breezes I've been able to balance my sail, set the tiller, and have the bungee steer the boat through small gusts but luffing up and then falling off in the lulls.

Usually, I use it more like the third hand to not lose the tiller position entirely when I suddenly have to use two hands for something else. Because that need is usually not planned for, I like a system that self-engages the minute I let go of the tiller. (Unlike the system with a lever underneath the tiller, mine also works with a tiller extension). Super cheap, super easy.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby igotit » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:55 am

Let me try this out,cant get the bbc code using phone to post pic directly on forum.
Im running everything by phone....sorry guys

https://flic.kr/p/2kEU3bc
https://flic.kr/p/2kEU3aR
https://flic.kr/p/2kETu3y

Edit
I give up,been fighting with flickr all morning with reseting passwords and it still wont let me login.i even created a new account and cant login.
I tried compressing pics from phone to upliad here,no good results for me and this garbage phone.
My old phone is still logged into flickr,i can upload pucs to flickr jyst fine....but cant acess the bbc code via app to paste the link here so that its viewable on the forum.
Im jyst walking away from trying to post pics for a lil while.im beyond aggrevated.
No app should upset me so much,but ive wasted 3 hours trying to get it all working.
Sorry for the rant
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby igotit » Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:48 pm

Still couldnt get the picture issue corrected so made a short vid.

https://youtu.be/7MvQNjODNuM
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby tomodda » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:13 pm

Wow, those rudder cheeks are amazing
I'd be afraid of breakage, but you are apparently sailing along just fine!
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby igotit » Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:48 pm

Thought of breakage always crosses my mind.ive been wanting to sand inside the cutout to see if its wood glassed over or all glass.its not too heavy to install while in the water.
Ive thought about building a new 1 to have as a backup incase this 1 breaks.
https://i.imgur.com/cpIGaSx.jpg
Last edited by igotit on Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New member with a 1968 DS1(rigging pics pg 6-7)

Postby GreenLake » Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:54 pm

The picture issue: the bbc codes only work for links that have an image extension (e.g. .gif, .png or .jpg). The links that you have are to pages on flickr, not to the images directly. I'm not sure whether flickr allows you to ever create links to actual images that can be embedded elsewhere. It could be that you may have to have a premium membership or something.

If you have a link directly to an image, you surround it with the "img" code as in this example, but the link has to be to the image, not a to a page where you can view the image.
Code: Select all
[img]https://example.com/your-image.jpg[/img]


I'm working from a desktop, so it's easy for me to run images through editing software (e.g. a cheap photoshop clone like "Affinity") and get it prepped for uploading (scaled to a nice size for viewing and about 65% jpeg compression to keep the filesize down). Or, in the case of your images, I would have taken a screenshot and then worked with that.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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