Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Topics primarily or specifically about the DS1. Many topics are of general interest, so please use forum sections on Rigging, Sails, etc. where appropriate.

Moderator: GreenLake

Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby tomodda » Mon May 11, 2020 10:25 pm

Hi Folks:

Dunno about your neck of the woods, but it's been GORGEOUS sailing weather here in North Carolina, best spring ever, and I'm stuck - local lakes are closed! So, after dithering around all winter, I'm finally cracking down on a few long-awaited "improvement" quarantine-time projects. Something like home "remuddling", just worse. For what its' worth, I'll post some pics here, either as inspiration or warning to others, you decide.

My boat is (still unnamed) hull #37 from 1958, if you search on this forum you'll see how I took her from a wreck to sailable. Now, I'm wrecking her again.... and of course, I'm basically taking on 5 projects at once and pushing each one along a bit when I feel like it/have time. So please don't mind the mess!

Project #1 is to finally put in a centerboard tree/console (see the post "lumpy bottom) for a full explanation. My dream is this (from a newer DS1, not mine!):

Tree and deck completed-640x480.jpg
Tree Complete
Tree and deck completed-640x480.jpg (54.05 KiB) Viewed 2394 times


Why? Stiffen the boat, and add a place to put control lines, cleats, etc, get them off my cabin-top. So, first step was to measure. From the bilge to top of centerboard is 1 foot on my boat (it's more on newer boats). Then it's 2 feet from the top of CB to the bottom of the cuddy. Splay out 10 inches and there you have your basic triangle. I drew that out on a big piece of cardboard, used a batten to draw a smooth curve, cut it out, transferred it to a sheet of leftover plywood and made a template:

IMG_20200510_201151-640x480.jpg
template
IMG_20200510_201151-640x480.jpg (224.18 KiB) Viewed 2394 times


Old #37 is one of the "Wooden Bench" DS1s.. the old seats are solid mahogany, pretty rotted at the edges but just fine in the middle (those are the seats in the pic up above, being used as a table). I've made new seats but saved the old ones for just this occasion:

IMG_20200510_170614-640x480.jpg
Test fit
IMG_20200510_170614-640x480.jpg (207.4 KiB) Viewed 2394 times


Now, this is just a test fit (note the clamp) but worked out how I wanted. I cut the "arms" of the tree out with a 3hp router (straight bit), using the plywood template tp guide me. I cut two layers for each side and glued overnight with my favorite, Gorilla Glue. I've been using it for years, works great for wood to wood, if you have a good fit and are careful not to squeeze too much glue out of your joint. Anyway, I'm happy and now off to shape the arms.... prepare for more woodworking blasphemy!
Last edited by tomodda on Mon May 11, 2020 11:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
tomodda
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:04 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby tomodda » Mon May 11, 2020 10:30 pm

..... my favorite wood shaping tool used to be a 18" belt sander, I've made all kinds of things with it, including a pizza peel. Then I discovered angle grinders, be still my beating heart! Flap disk is where it's at:

IMG_20200510_201009-640x480.jpg
Shaping
IMG_20200510_201009-640x480.jpg (200.89 KiB) Viewed 2393 times


So this is a shaped "arm" sitting on top of the "raw" unshaped arm. I'll admit that my two layers for each arm did not line up perfectly (my router and template method has some play in it, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch) but I knocked off the overhangs with the angle grinder and all is well. So next I shape the other arm, test fit it again and drill the attachment holes. One goes at the top forward corner of the CB, the other (two) go thru the very back ends of the bilge channel (that square fitting in the front of the boat, below the mast, runs from front bulkhead to CB). At the top, I'm mating each arm to a "pad" that goes against the bottom of the cuddy. Two separate pads, one on each side.. although some people who've done these "console trees" have put a solid curved piece up against the cuddy. Jury is still out for me on whether that is worth the bother. Anyway, after the next test fit, this project is going to sit for a while I do the other rigging projects.

Project #2:

Putting a cap on top of the centerboard, from thwart to aft end. Not much to show you yet, except where it's going:

IMG_20200510_180115-640x480.jpg
CB
IMG_20200510_180115-640x480.jpg (228.85 KiB) Viewed 2393 times


I've cut a thinner plank to put on each side of the top of the CB, and a plank/cap that goes on top. Lots of fiddly adjustments and measuring to line up with the existing holes in the CB, cut a new hole thru the CB, plan out my spacing, etc. The cap plank will attach to the side planks at a 90 degree angle, forming a "U". I'll be using wood screws from top into the side planks, so I've got to make some punch guides to locate my "blind" holes. Fun. More photos once that moves along a bit.

Project #3:

This you can see by inference in the photo above. My portside seat was never attached correctly to the front thwart, causing the inner-most plank to come loose. So I took the entire port-side apart, re-drilled some holes, put in better fasteners, and fixed the plate that attaches the front side to the thwart. However, now I need to drill blind holes into the underside of the thwart, which is a ROYAL PITA... there's 9" clearance under the thwart so I need to stick my head and arm under there and use an angle attachment on the drill and go VERY slowly. It's better than taking apart the entire bench system, but still unpleasant and I'm putting it off. In the meantime, front of seat is held up with a clamp, observe photo above. The good friend who lent me his router for Project #1 is very short (4'10"), I really wanted to beg him to go under the thwart, but even I have limits to my chutzpah! Well, on the positive, I finally fitted an all-weather sliding drawer under the seat, more pics later (of course).

Project #4:

Spinnaker rigging! I finally have all my hardware and lines for this project, just a question of putting in more cleats, turning blocks, line bags, etc, etc, etc.... which is the true reason for Project #1 Tree, and #2 CB Cap, but also leads us to Project #5 (next slide please).
Last edited by tomodda on Mon May 11, 2020 11:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.
tomodda
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:04 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby tomodda » Mon May 11, 2020 11:19 pm

Project #5:

My old boat has a semi-enclosed transom, with a single access hole, formerly covered by a rotted plywood plate (which I threw away):

IMG_20181021_183532-800x600.jpg
Aft
IMG_20181021_183532-800x600.jpg (102.62 KiB) Viewed 2388 times


I envy the newer DS1's, with the open transom... easier to put a small cooler in there, easier to drain, and most important - access to the bottom of the transom deck! I need to install turning blocks for my spinnaker sheets, remove two old cleats, fix a cleat which ripped out last year, put backing plates under everything, and remove the useless boarding ladder that a PO hung off the back. Impossible thru the old hole. So, without further ado, my patented T-slot:

IMG_20200419_192728-640x480.jpg
T-slot
IMG_20200419_192728-640x480.jpg (241.78 KiB) Viewed 2388 times


Barbaric? Perhaps. After I'm done with all the under-deck work, I plan to build a small shelf on each side at the level of the seats. This will serve both as stiffening for the entire area as well as a place to put small, light stuff that's nice to have near at hand, like seat cushions and boarding cutlasses.

I also plan to line the underside of the deck and the inside of the hull with an 2 inches or so of foam insulation plates, some flotation. For what it's worth, once I opened up the space and stuck a camera back there, I found out that the aft end of the "air tanks" on each side of the hull (behind the seat backs, it's an open space in the newer DS1's) is completely open to the transom area. There's fitted foam blocks stuck in there, but not water-tight at all. The jury is out on what I'll do about it. Considering spritzing expanding foam back there, but that can go crazy in a hurry. Well, at least I can quit worrying about keeping the side "tanks" water-tight. So, if you have an older DS1, be aware that the only flotation in the side tanks is the foam blocks.

Of course, there are a ton of small "projects" that need doing but aren't worth expounding on. Clean the springtime litter out of the boat, give everything a good scrub, touch up paint, oil the wood, check the trailer tires and lights, and the list goes on.... But I count this all as "fun", I plan my next moves, obsess about the details, and dream about being on the water, it's all good. Also, our state parks re-opened last Friday :)
tomodda
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:04 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby GreenLake » Tue May 12, 2020 2:19 am

I don't know if the plywood hatch in the back was original. I've seen one other boat from that vintage, and seem to remember that this was supposed to be a flotation tank.

I suggest you put some of those inflatable bags under your seats so that if you capsize you have some flotation in the rear. (And add some in the front, like on the other DS1 you show).

Yes, I know there's some enclosed space outside of the seats (where DS1s from my generation have shelves) but I don't think it's going to be enough if the transom can flood.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby tomodda » Tue May 12, 2020 5:41 am

Well, yes. My intention is absolutely to install float bags like photo1 and under the seats, I wouldn't have started this series of projects without building towards that. Only way I'll get some decent flotation. Would prefer up high, though, so front bags may go at deck/hull junction. Also ruminating on putting foam under my "shelves" in the back, adding maybe another cubic foot of flotation that way. We shall see, but bottom line is that I've got "where to add flotation" in mind.
tomodda
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:04 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby GreenLake » Tue May 12, 2020 2:59 pm

Glad to hear that.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby lemsteraak » Fri May 29, 2020 4:03 am

Tomodda, I'm watching and learning from your ideas.

I'm a bit concerned about your flotation, we have flipped a few of the old DS1's like what you have and they could definitely benefit from added flotation. You have two flotation tanks on either side in back of the seat. Are they open to the back? My concern is that the original design had the flotation tank in the back and the sides, all connected, by opening the back up, you allow water to go into these side tanks too. This might be a great area to stuff a few of the dunnage bags you recommended to me. This will give you high flotation which give stability. Low flotation is also helpful to get the gunnels out of the water so you can self rescue. I think your idea of dunnage bags under the seat will do the trick. You might want to swamp in warm water to make sure your boat floats level when swamped. They have a very small bow flotation tank. In the later DS1's they built a much larger bow tank, low down so the bow would float higher.

A quick question. I was looking at your seat setup and you were able to build a thwart that goes straight across over the centerboard trunk. Are your seats high, your centerboard trunk low, or an optical illusion? It looks great. I've seen three of the older wooden seat DS1's and they all had thwarts on each side of the trunk.

- Rich
lemsteraak
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:09 pm
Location: Portland Oregon

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby tomodda » Fri May 29, 2020 9:55 am

Rich:

Hi and thanks for your concern re: flotation. Yes, the aft end of the side tanks is completely open to the under-transom area, so I just destroyed the "integrated tank" system that Uffa Fox originally intended (apparently). That being said, the under-transom area was never particularly watertight to begin with, it had a plywood hatch screwed over the old opening. When I got the boat, there were a lot of foam blocks sitting loose in the the aft area. The blocks in the bow are fitted in tight, so I think these aft blocks were an afterthought. Anyway, I want a better system.

To begin with I'm thinking about how to close off the aft end of the side tanks, going to be "interesting" to do. Then I'm going to fit blue (or pink) insulating foam sheets into the aft area, basically surrounding the "glove-box sized" area that I've carved out of each side of the bulkhead for a bit of storage. The middle will either take a small cooler or a buoyancy bag, depending on circumstances. Anyway, fresh water weighs 62 lbs/cubic foot (not gallon!) and the boat displaces 575 lbs, so I need to come up with 9.3 cubic feet of flotation, call it 10. Buoyancy bags of some sort will be very good addition. A bit pricey, but I'm thinking 4 x Optimist-style 48 liter buoyancy bags (105lbs flotation), two under my seats and two in the cuddy, maybe up in the corner between the hull and the deck. Or maybe kayak bags under the cuddy, better shape. Need to think about attachment points. Anyway, I'll figure something out.

As for the thwart going over the CB trunk, yes - my trunk is lower that the later CB trunks. The later ones apparently have an added "ridge" on top for attaching jib sheet cleats and the like, mine doesn't. The only problem with my shallower trunk is that you still need to attach a bracket to it for the bottom mainsheet block/jammer. So that requires boltholes thru the top of the CB trunk. The holes are above the waterline (barely), but with any splashing going on or when I'm at speed, they weep water. Silicone caulk to the rescue! I'm using 1" steel washers on both sides of the bolt anyway, so I bed them in caulk, put a bead on the hole itself and no more weeping. That being said, all later versions of the DS have the higher trunk, there's a reason... no silicone caulk in the 60's!

Best,

Tom
tomodda
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:04 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby GreenLake » Fri May 29, 2020 10:59 am

If you use caulk, the recommendation would be to use Polysulfide not silicone.

By my estimate, the mid '60s DS1s have two seat tanks that are about 7' long (approx). I rough estimate each foot-long section is about a cubic foot of volume. That would represent 14 cubic feet plus whats in the bow. Possibly even a bit more. When capsizing you need to discount half of your lateral tanks, because one half will be out of the water. Or should be, if you want any chance to right the boat. And the buoyancy needs to support some crew / gear weight in addition.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby GreenLake » Fri May 29, 2020 11:07 am

From the pictures, your CB trunk appears even lower than what the addition of a ridge would account for.

Also, for mine, in this picture, the horizontal bolts holding the base for the cleats are right at the bottom edge of the top of the trunk (you can see them when you look from below, but they intrude into that space only by about their own width.

1034

You can see how much "air" space there is in the trunk that's still above the thwarts.

Underway, there's quite a bit of pressure buildup in the CB trunk, so the water level there is higher than outside the boat. DSII owners know that intimately :)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby lemsteraak » Fri May 29, 2020 12:38 pm

I had a set of these "beach rollers" on another boat and they came in really handy. They are made by Aere out of inflatable boat fabric so are really heavy duty. Pretty huge so a lot of bang for the buck.

https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/aere-br.htm

They will certainly help get your gunnels out of the water. When you capsize, it is usually when there is a lot of wind and waves. You have to take into account the height of the waves so the water doesn't come back in.

- Rich
lemsteraak
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:09 pm
Location: Portland Oregon

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby GreenLake » Fri May 29, 2020 1:28 pm

GreenLake wrote:By my estimate, the mid '60s DS1s have two seat tanks that are about 7' long (approx). I rough estimate each foot-long section is about a cubic foot of volume. That would represent 14 cubic feet plus whats in the bow.


Got curious. Went and measured. The tanks are a bit less than 7' but the cross section is more like 150sq", perhaps a bit more than that, so the volume gets close to 7 cubit ft. So one tank should float 435bs, if airtight. Half the bow tank makes up the remainder.

Some people have stuffed additional flotation into the area between seat tank and side decks (which usually form a convenient shelf for paddles, spinnaker poles etc). That would make the boat ride higher in a capsize.

BTW, no matter how much flotation you put in your boat, it's not going to affect much how high she rides when swamped. The reason is that, once completely swamped, each inch you rise the gunwhales above the water would lift a volume of water 1" x area of cockpit/cuddy, or about 7 cubic feet of water. So, doubling the existing flotation would get you something a bit over 2 inches. That 's not much compared to any moderate waver height.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby tomodda » Fri May 29, 2020 6:11 pm

Thank you both for your observations and ideas. I need to calculate what the side tanks hold on my early DS-1, I suspect it's much the same as the under-seat. I also very much like the looks of those rollers, perfect shape and 8.8 Cubic feet each. I figure the Volume is 9^2*pi*60 cubic inches, divide by 1728 for cubic feet. Anyway, food for thought!

Tom
tomodda
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:04 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby GreenLake » Fri May 29, 2020 6:57 pm

You might want to check your math. The rollers are 9" diameter (not radius) so the cross section is 1/4 of what you were plugging in. You need 4 of them to get to 8.8 cubic feet.

For comparison: the seat tank on the mid '60s DS1s are 6'8" long (not 60") and while a bit oddly shaped just a bit over a 1sqf in cross-section.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
GreenLake
 
Posts: 6072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 am

Re: Quarantine Projects - Hull #37

Postby tomodda » Fri May 29, 2020 9:05 pm

Grumble, you're right, I'm wrong. End of a long week of work and I can't even do simple math! Thanks for the sanity check.
tomodda
 
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:04 am

Next

Return to Day Sailer I Only

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron