New DS1 Owner - General Questions

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New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby LGsailer » Mon May 18, 2020 9:40 am

Hello! I recently purchased a 1966 Daysailer 1 and have some general questions. This forum and the association website have already been an invaluable resource, and I appreciate your time for my first post.

I have 4 questions to start here - I could not find anything about these on the forum so wanted to ask directly. I will be referencing the photos at this link, which are labeled.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Y5bTsZINihcs2O0e7ps4HZ-shVUdyZj-?usp=sharing

1) Mast 1 and Mast 2 Photos - while I understand a tabernacle setup, this seems like something different. There is one small pin that holds the mast pieces together, and it is very wobbly in its current position. I am sure she will sail fine once the mast is stepped and the stays are tightened, but I am very confused by this type of mast hinge. The DS1 original manual does not reference this so it does not seem stock. Plus I will be storing the boat on a mooring so I am concerned about any "slop" movement.

2) Mast Jack Photo - I understand how this piece works however the baseplate that the circular jack part sits on "hinges" on the bolt. The bolt hole looks like there is forward/aft adjustment and maybe has gotten larger with time. Is this standard? Want to make sure this is safe or regular as I have not used a mast jack setup before.

3) Wooden Blocks Photo - There are 4 wooden 4 x 4 blocks behind the seats, 2 on each side. Are these supposed to be there? Seem oddly placed. The aft 2 seem to not move but the forward 2 have a big of wiggle room.

4) 4 Holes Photo - See 4 mounting holes just forward of the rear two cleats, any idea what would or should have gone there?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby tomodda » Mon May 18, 2020 12:32 pm

Hi LG! Welcome to the forum and congrats on your "new" DaySailer. Answering questions in order:

1) Yup, I have the same "three point" tabernacle on my mast. Not to worry, it's plenty strong. Besides the mast is held up by the stays, the tabernacle is more to keep things centered and in the right place. That being said:

a) Those stays are crucial, get them replaced (drmarine.com, $180-ish) if you have any doubt about them. Also very good to have the newer 1/8" stays.
b) Be careful not to let the mast twist off to port or star as you are raising/lowering it, you'll bend the plate. Don't ask me how I know.... a little is fine, but don't drop the mast at a major angle...
c) When you raise/lower the mast, make sure you have both side stays attached properly - running over the spreaders and attached to the chainplates. Again, don't ask me how I know...
d) I often forget to put the pin thru the little hole in the forward vertical pin/post. It's not really needed, but nice security, I guess - yes, when I dropped the mast, the little pin sheered immediately. Anyway, use a straight cotter pin, not a split ring, less work.
e) This tabernacle has a little play in it. My mast will "hinge" off to the leeward a few degrees, maybe translating to a foot at the masthead. I've learned to ignore it, was scary at first. Actually, most of the play is between mast and tabernacle (the socket), not the hinge plate itself. Anyway, don't sweat it, get good stays.
f) I do have a "normal", "four-point" tabernacle sitting in my parts drawer. Doesn't fit my mast without major machine-shop reworking of the socket. I figured that new stays were a better investment. Actually, at that point, I'd prefer a one piece mast.. one day.
g) The pin that holds the aft hinge together often jams when I'm putting it in/taking it out. Solution - my 2lb deadblow mallet and (as needed) a cheap phillips screwdriver to use as a tap/punch. Before the mallet, I just banged on it with an old wrench, shame on me! The pin itself is a long clevis pin, I replaced mine with stainless steel just for ease of mind.

2) You'll be fine, the mast jack pretty much gets jammed into the keelson by the pressure of the stays. I'd add a larger diameter washer to spread the load. Then just make sure it's tight enough so that you can't move the jack around (fore/aft) by hand. I think you're saying that the jack also pivots fore/aft on it's bolt? Again, just tighten the bolt so it's not all sloppy and let the stays do their work.

3) My guess is that those blocks were put there by previous owner to hold up the carlins, and by extension the side decks. Translation, carlins are ribs that hold up the side decks, kind of like rafters under a roof. Check your carlins (look up the term here in the forum), any dry rot? cracking? broken? missing? I'd get rid of those blocks and fix the actual supports in the near future. But as long as the deck is solid you may be able to get by for now. Anyway, this warrants some close inspection.. stick you head under there, stick your phone under there and take some pics, feel the give on the side decks, look fro surface cracks, poke the carlins with a screwdriver, etc.

4) Beer holders! Nah, my guess is probably turning blocks for the spinnaker. I'd fill the holes whenever you can get around to it and have some spare thickened epoxy or the like.

Oh my, I almost forgot. Do not store a DaySailer on a mooring! Maybe a few days, but you're asking to lose your mast. Even moreso with a tabernacle of any sort. If you must, take the mast down.

All the best and upgrade your stays! Here's the link at D&R: http://www.drmarine.com/proddetail.asp?prod=DS800

Tom
Last edited by tomodda on Mon May 18, 2020 12:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby GreenLake » Mon May 18, 2020 3:03 pm

Tom has covered most of this.

The mounting holes for a spinnaker turning block are alas unlikely to match any blocks that you might install yourself. So, you'll have to fill, whether or not you are planning to rig a spinnaker.

The mast jack is fine. You do want to lubricate it, if you are using it to tighten your rig. It clearly can't be adjusted fore-aft any longer, but if your boat is balanced, it may already be placed in the correct position. If not, that is if you find that with sails trimmed correctly, you need to pull too hard on the tiller (or too little) when going upwind in moderate conditions (boat moving well, but not overpowered) then you can beef things up, e.g. manufacture a backing plate for the bolt so that you can move the mast foot to a better location and then lock it place.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby LGsailer » Tue May 19, 2020 9:13 am

Tom and GL - thank you very much! I appreciate the breakdown and I am sure I will have more thoughts and questions soon. Next up is trying to get a hull or sail number figured out as she has nothing currently.

Regarding the mooring, can you explain a bit more about why Daysailer's should not be on moorings? The previous owner kept his on one for the majority of the season (small lake), which is where I got the idea it would be ok. Understandably I am on a much larger lake (Lake George in NY) however we don't really have a solution for storing the boat when not in use other than a mooring. Seems to me that with a proper mooring setup these boats are large enough to be OK - not so much?
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby jalmeida51 » Tue May 19, 2020 11:19 am

Here is my thoughts about keeping your boat on a mooring. I keep my Daysailer1 docked in a rather sheltered boat yard. Not much wind or chop. It's a 1981 built by Rebel. I replaced the 3/32 shrouds and adjusters with 1/8 shrouds with turnbuckles. My tabernacle is bolted through the cabin roof lays flush on the roof. I had a local machine shop make up a stainless steel plate to support the cabin roof. I replaced the tabernacle due to it was bent from the 3/32 shrouds loosing up. It almost pulled the through bolts up through the cabin roof. That is why I backed up the underside of the cabin roof with a stainless steel plate to distribute the load on the roof. My owners manual says Do not moor the boat. I guess their reasoning was if in a strong wind and chop the shrouds could loosen up causing the boat to loose the mast. My next improvement to the mast is to replace the spreaders with a heavy duty set from D&R Marine this summer. Last summer I trailered the boat to Maine and left it on a mooring for 6 weeks with No Problems. You should talk to Ruddy at D&R Marine about mooring your boat. John
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby tomodda » Tue May 19, 2020 7:57 pm

The reason the owner's manual says not to moor the boat is exactly because of the risk of the stays working themselves loose (stretching) then the mast getting out of alignment and further straining the stays, rinse-repeat, vicious cycle, and the mast eventually goes down. It's not the wind and waves themselves (after all, you can sail this boat for all of eternity if you want), but the constant snubbing against the mooring pennant, all those little jerking motions. On the other hand, John A. shows it CAN be done, by re-enforcing everything. Certainly makes sense to get teh 1/8" stays (did I write that already?) and get the heavy-duty spreaders from Rudy at D&R. Also makes sense to have a chat with him.

Other thoughts - your don't have enough space on the "3-point" tabernacle to bolt it to the roof, not really sure what that buys you either. But certainly do whatever you can to minimize play (looseness) in the whole assembly, tighten bolts, etc. Also, what about putting a weight on the mooring pennant? Like an an anchor kellet (aka anchor sentinel, angel, buddy, normally used to increase catenary), just tie a heavy ball to the middle of the pennant. That will absorb some of the shock. Likewise, I think there are elastic pennants. Either way, you'll need one floating pennant for picking up the mooring, then the tie onto the weighted/elastic one. Anyway, Rudy can guide you and I'm sure GL can chime in with a more sane idea.

How much chop does Lake George kick up in summer? I hear Champlain can get pretty hairy, but George?
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby GreenLake » Tue May 19, 2020 9:24 pm

Pre 1971 DS1's had tiny little metal plaques on transom coaming or front flotation tanks. Those tended to get lost. You may need to ask your DMV to assign you a hull number.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby jalmeida51 » Wed May 20, 2020 5:41 am

Another way to solve the problem of the mooring pennant jerking the boat is to install a rubber mooring line snubber to the pennant. West Marine, Defender, and Hamilton Marine up in Maine carry them. I do see Daysailers out on moorings up in New England area. John
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby GreenLake » Wed May 20, 2020 2:33 pm

With keel stepped or with desk stepped masts?

Also, rubber snubbers are nice, but they need to be dimensioned for the weight of the boat. Too strong, and they might as well be rigid.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby jalmeida51 » Wed May 20, 2020 4:24 pm

I saw both most were keel stepped but there were a few with deck stepped masts. At the Northport Yacht Club, Maine they had about 10 DaySailers out on moorings. Their mooring field is located on Penobscot Bay and is wide open to the fetch of the bay. I believe they raced 2 times a week. I kept my boat on a mooring on Belfast Harbor Maine for 6 weeks with a mooring snubber on the pennant never had a problem. The last thing I need to do to beef up my mast is to install the beefed up spreader bars. Just ordered them from D&R. John
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby GreenLake » Wed May 20, 2020 7:52 pm

Perhaps, if you visit your boat twice a week, there's not as much scope for problems to go out of hand? Compared to the "moor your boat at your summer cabin you visit every other weekend" scenario.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby jalmeida51 » Wed May 20, 2020 8:13 pm

I totally agree GL. I try to check on my boat every day when it's in the water. Now that the rainy season has started down here in Florida after each use the boom tent goes back on. Hate to see it sink at the dock. John
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby LGsailer » Thu May 21, 2020 8:51 am

GreenLake wrote:Perhaps, if you visit your boat twice a week, there's not as much scope for problems to go out of hand? Compared to the "moor your boat at your summer cabin you visit every other weekend" scenario.


Unfortunatley that is my exact situation. Currently a mooring is the only way for me to store the boat at our summer cabin. I am trying to avoid having to go buy a truck just to launch this relatively small boat every weekend we want to sail it. I am also investigating some small PWC/manual boat lifts for installation near our dock, and will be in touch with Rudy for his thoughts as well- looking at all options at this point.

Thanks all!
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby ShallowSeas » Sat May 23, 2020 7:42 am

Another new DS I guy here.

To be sure, are we talking about "mooring" on a buoy where the boat can spun freely around? As opposed to in a slip, with min 3 point dock lines (two stern, one bow)? In spite of the speed that my keep stepped mast can be rigged, I know my lazy self, and the steps of hitching, towing, rigging, launching, and then the reverse will be enough of a barrier to limit my sailing opportunities.

The slip would not far from home, and I would definitely be visiting at least once a week. Hopefully to sail, but just so she doesn't get lonely :-)

Thanks!

- Dave
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Re: New DS1 Owner - General Questions

Postby jalmeida51 » Sat May 23, 2020 10:25 am

I have docked my Daysailer1 for 2 1/2 years with no problems. I upgraded to 1/8 diameter shrouds and forestay. Also made improvements to my hinge tabernacle attachment to the cabin roof. I believe your mast is keel stepped, you should be ok. You might want to consider upgrading to 1/8 with turnbuckles. I always check on my boat when it's in the water. John
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