Just purchased #13090

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Just purchased #13090

Postby smpl5d » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:29 am

I just purchased DS number 13090 (Precision Daysailer 1), so I am new to this community. The only question I have thus far is how to rig a boom vang should I decide to do this in future ... I am sure this has been addressed previously so I will search the forums.

In any case, I look forward to engaging with you in future ... once I get it in the water, that is!
smpl5d
 
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Re: Just purchased #13090

Postby tomodda » Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:13 pm

Congratulations and Welcome to the Forum!

Rigging the Boom Vang is relatively simple - put a bail (D-shaped metal strap) as low as you can go on the mast, and another bail or a well-reinforced, beefy eye-strap on the boom, about 2-3' back from the gooseneck. Rig a pulley system between them.

Now, here's where it get's interesting, what pulley system should you use? The original Daysailer comes with a 3-1 pulley with a jam cleat, and that's OK (as in barely adequate) for keeping the boom from rising when running downwind - traditional use for vanging. However, on the DS, you can and should use Vang Sheeting. This is actively using your Vang when going upwind, which has several advantages. Main ones being that it allows you to flatten your mainsail in higher winds, and allows you to control twist. Read here for more details:

http://www.sailingbreezes.com/sailing_breezes_current/articles/Aug00/dell0800.htm

Using the Vang this way requires a pulley system with a fairly good purchase, at least 12-1. And you'll need to use a cam-cleat instead of a jammer. Not hard or very expensive to rig, just requires some planning. Here's mine, just to illustrate:

Vang800X600.jpg
20-1 Vang
Vang800X600.jpg (222.53 KiB) Viewed 2743 times


Apologies for being a bit out of focus! Anyway, this is a 20-1 cascade, that brownish blurry stick on the cuddy roof is a foot-long ruler, so gives you some scale. This page has some great schematics for various Vang systems:

https://www.ronstan.us/marine5/vang_systems.asp

Mine is Vang #6. I spent about $250-$300 on this, note that I did NOT use Ronstan gear, much as I love them. Instead I looked up the breaking strength for the blocks that they suggested, then scoured the Internet to get used, discontinued, etc blocks with the same specs at a more reasonable price. Ironically, most of the gear in my Vang is from FICO, originally the 'Big Dog" in nautical fittings, till Ronstan bought them out in '81. I splashed out a bit more on the ropes, as I needed light, strong, and low-stretch and wanted new, not offcuts - this combo costs money although not all that badly either. I used Dyneema for the cascades and New England Ropes Bzzz line for the pulley. I did my own splicing, so add a few bucks for the tools (reusable and you can use a coat hanger and needle-nose pliers instead). Also I spent freely - read new stuff and not cheap chinese crap - for the good stainless shackles, including 3 snap-shackles. The latter are not strictly necessary, but sure makes rigging/unrigging the mast a lot easier and quicker. Anyway, I really think that a robust vang setup like this is worth every penny and can be kept at a reasonable cost. And you can go in steps.. for instance, buy yourself a 5-1 pulley and set up the cascades later. Also, you may want to reverse the pulley, put the camcleat along the boom so that you can reach up to adjust it. GreenLake, on this forum does that, although I have no idea how he controls the tail.

And I'm lying a little bit about the $250ish that I've spend on the Vang. I've kept adding on (remember, start slow!) and now I've led the tail of my system below decks, along the centerboard and up to a swiveling cam. You can just see it behind the compass along my CB. This is so I can adjust the vang while sitting at the helm, especially good when I'm single-handing. I've lost exact count of the $$, but my Vang setup is easily the most expensive system on the boat (except the sails themselves, of course). Still worth every penny, when I'm going upwind in a good breeze I'll be working the Vang almost as much, if not more, than the MainSheet. This just to say how important this bit of gear really is, and it's worth really putting some thought into it and building in stages. This goes for both the system itself and your skills - it took me two years to figure out Vang Sheeting and I'm sill very much learning.

Bottom line, the DaySailer is a boat where it's easy, relatively cheap, and fun to experiment with your running rigging. Perfectly class-legal, as well - no restraints on your rigging setup. You know how they say that a boat is a hole in the water, into which you pour money? Well, the DS is a SMALL hole and the cash amounts (if done in small doses) will often survive the auditing powers of the SO - Significant Other or, in my case, the Right Honorable First Lady of the Exchequer. Overall, the Daysailer offers great "bang for your buck," mine has been a joy to own.

Fair Winds!
tomodda
 
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Re: Just purchased #13090

Postby GreenLake » Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:49 pm

Welcome to the forum and congratulations on your new boat.

You should definitely search for the accumulated wisdom on vangs here on the forum, type "site:forum/daysailer.org/forum vang" into your favorite search engine and the results may be more useful than the forum-internal search (although the "advanced" search in the forum lets you search for thread titles which can be useful).

I have a 12:1 (a 6:1 purchase combined with a single 2:1 cascade) and it works well for me - however, I tend to not sail in the upper wind ranges a lot. The 6:1 purchase came with an attached cam cleat. But because of angles, I had to switch sides so I now cleat near the boom end of the vang. With a separate cleat, I might have been able to rig a cleat on deck, or even some other point of the cockpit. As it is, I can reach mine easily to adjust to wind conditions, but not so I could "play" it during a gust.

Even without that, it allows me to play the main w/o affecting the shape of the sail, which is the main purpose I use it for. That seems to have really improved the control I have in gusts, as the sail depowers cleanly and doesn't suddenly power up due to developing more camber/belly as the mainsheet is released.

Here's a picture. (I only have a single attachment point for both sides of the cascade and can't report any problems with that).

2717267926632328
(click to enlarge)

The pictures show, in order, use of the vang on a reach in 15-20kts of wind, the attachment using a U bail, the full vang and the detail of purchase and cleat, including the 90 degree twisted shackle needed to attach to the bail on the boom. For the latter, I used a SS strap riveted to the boom - works well, but my mistake was a slight error in the angle - and the vang did bend the strap a bit! (It's been stable this way for multiple seasons). Alternatively, a through bolted U bail may have served.

I usually thread the tail through the bowline knot at the other end of the purchase, to keep it out of the way, leaving just a shallow loop to grab.

So, now you have some examples, but I think the older thread on the forum are full of useful discussions.

I think my blocks are Ronstan. I remember the Series-20 6:1 was unexpectedly inexpensive; even now you should be able to get it for $125 list. The cascade is either a 30mm high load or a 40mm block at less than $30 list. I don't think I cracked $200 on this vang, all included. The required SWL on the purchase is 1/2 of that for the block on the cascade. If you use a double cascade, it would be 1/4. So you can to small there.

PPS: if you keep each thread you open to a focused topic (like vang) and open a new one if you have an new, unrelated question, I'd be able to assist in moving topics to the most appropriate section on the forum.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Just purchased #13090

Postby tomodda » Sat Mar 27, 2021 9:41 pm

GL:

Going off topic a bit....

Love your "upside-down" Vang setup and I'm going to steal the idea of looping my shorter tails to a bowline. I have several controls that are adjusted over a very short range (my topping lift, for instance), this is a good idea for controlling the tails.

What's with the cheek block on the boom (Photo 4)? Cunningham? Slab reefing?

Aha moment! I finally understand how you're using Prusiks (Photos 3,4). I need to re-rig my jib sheet, tempted to ditch my hard shackle....

What's the blue/yellow flecked line in Photo 2? Your jib tensioner? You lead it thru a plate, doesn't that wear out the line? Another nice Prusik, though.

Mad love for your red-capped crewman in Photo 1! Wrestling the live end of the jib sheet, wrapped around his hand, in 15 knots wind, gusting 20. I need fearless crew like him, if he ever gets sick of the West Coast, send him my way. I promise a steady diet of Carolina Barbecue, Cheerwine, and Bourbon. Happy crew = Happy sailing!

Fair winds.....
tomodda
 
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Re: Just purchased #13090

Postby GreenLake » Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:04 am

Yeah, hard to keep threads on "topic" :)

But, as we are on the topic of rigging. Photo 2 was indeed taken to document my jib tensioner. It's lead through a fairlead that's similar to a low-friction ring. If the tensioner is adjusted a lot and with big changes in length, perhaps it might try to saw through that, but as it is mostly stationary, it feels the same curved surface as on a small block. I predict a log and happy life for it. (Should be mounted closer to the mast, so it doesn't pull the halyard off.

The Prusik for the jib sheet works well. Should have been a bit narrower rope for it, but somehow it jams so tight, it doesn't come lose even with flogging sheets.

The cheek block is needed for my single line reef. I'd say, mount a hook on the gooseneck if you can figure out how, and forget about the reefline for the tack. Just have it for the front. The way I have it, I need to first reach under the boom, pull the rear tight, then tighten the front. Still, it works, as you saw on the first photo.

That crew member is a real sailor's sailor.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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