Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

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Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:29 pm

Here in Maine it'll get cold quick and stay cold for a long time. My new-to-me DS1 is a nice sky blue but it really needs a paint job, and I'd like it to be a nice navy-blue with red below the water line. I was thinking of doing this myself but 1. I don't plan on taking it out of the water until October 1st or so, 2. I don't have an indoor space that will be 50+ degrees reliably.

Has anyone hired a marina or shop to do a re-paint? Just curious what the cost was, I really have no idea.
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby GreenLake » Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:20 am

The actual job of repainting can be done in a few weekends - less or more depending on the amount of the prep work needed (dings / scratches in the hull, etc.). You need heating only for the final stage: applying the paint and the initial cure (some paints cure very slowly, some faster, worth calling the manufacturer to make sure when it's safe to chill). You may be able to rent a garage that you can heat for part of the time for less money than having the boat painted professionally. It's such a small job that I'm not sure a regular yard would like to take it on (I've never tried, I rented a garage from a friend).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:40 am

That's not a terrible idea. I really hadn't thought of renting out a garage. I guess that the dirty part is the sanding which I can do outside, the painting is just slow and boring hah.

Ok, maybe I can do this. I am having some custom sails made so I really wasn't excited about also paying a yard for something I could do myself. But then again, I'm quite a newb and definitely have never painted a boat before so who knows how long it'll take. :lol:
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby tomodda » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:31 pm

@Anstigmat:

I went thru the painting process two winters ago, including researching having someone else do it. Bottom line - Marine Painting Shops (Boatyards, and Marine Paint Specialists) are booked MONTHS in advance and unwilling to do such a small job and very expensive. I think I was getting priced around $3-4K when I just gave up. This is North Carolina, which is just as "boaty" as Maine, but more powerboat-oriented. If you absolutely dont want to do it yourself, check out auto-paint shops, a lot of them pride themselves in doing custom jobs (helmets, furniture, and the like) . I was starting negotiations with one shop when a buddy offered my his (unheated) barn and I took the plunge painting myself.

As for the painting process itself, it's 95% sanding, filling, smoothing, cleaning, masking (bring plenty of GOOD masking tape!) and 5% actual painting.. and then sand some more. I STRONGLY recommend you do the whole process inside, if only to keep the outdoor crap off your freshly sanded surfaces. See my progress here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5853&start=30

Our winters are nowhere near as bad as Maine, but I did a lot of work in freezing temps, and waited for over 50's weather before most of my painting. Two tricks of the trade - space heater and heat gun (both have their dangers as well, though! We can discuss when you get there).

I'm happy to answer any questions if/when you decide to paint the boat. Final advice before you start...

Decide how "anal" you want to be about your finish before your start. Are you going to race? Are you going to a boatshow? If the answer is "no" to either, then go for a "workboat" finish, in other words "If it looks good from 3 feet away, then I'm happy, don't get any closer." There's definitely a point of diminishing returns, somewhere around 600-grit sandpaper or fixing your umpteenth tiny paint run.

Get good paint. Assuming you are dry-sailing (trailer), you don't need specialized bottom paint, topsides paint is fine. Get yourself a nice enamel that self-levels (as much as possible). I'm in love with Kirby Marine Paints: https://kirbypaint.com/collections/kirbys-marine-paints, but up to you. (Kirby is very responsive on the phone too). Petit, Interlux, etc are also great. Budget some $150-200 for the paint. Good paint = less work. I was able to "roll and tip" the Kirby's, was very happy with the finish. The other high-quality paints should be the same, you WANT to "roll and tip" (look it up, and yes, you can do it solo).

Anyway, painting the DS is relatively easy but you have to think through and plan each step. There's lot of little details and different ways of doing things.. how to fill gaps? Crazing/small cracks? how to sand without taking off the gelcoat? Best masking tape? Best roller cover? etc, etc. Much has been discussed already on this forum and there's advice (and videos!) all over the internet, so do your research. Don't be intimidated though, it REALLY is easy and you can erase (sand out) your mistakes. Besides, mistakes beget experience!

Best regards,

Tom
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:39 pm

Thank you for all that advice! Yes I think by force of necessity and the mighty dollar I will be doing this just myself. Honestly the thing I am most excited about is that a local Maine sail maker is going to produce some traditional hand made sails for my DS1, that'll be the biggest investment I make. (https://www.mhbsailmakers.com).

I am definitely not going to do any racing, so it doesn't have to be NASA perfect, but I'd like to do a good job from a 3 feet away / durability standard. My DS1 does sit at a mooring all Summer, so anti-fouling paint will be necessary. There are some cracks in the paint here and there, but it's actually in pretty good shape overall. The decking is pretty clean, probably just needs a good spray wash and I'm all set with that.

I guess my first question would be, how do you know when you're done sanding?
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby GreenLake » Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:43 pm

:)

Good question.

First, I would give this one a good clean. Second, I would inspect it for cracks. Third, I would look at how desperate you are to change the appearance above the waterline. Small cracks you can scrape/grind open a bit (V shape) and then restore with a gelcoat repair kit. If you have massive cracking everywhere, you may want to sand off (much of) the gelcoat. Anyway, once you're free of cracks, you only need to scuff sand the gelcoat to take AF paint. You need to find some local knowledge on what AF paint works in your waters. Saltwater? Fresh water? / Brackish water?

Above the waterline, things are cosmetic. You may or may not need/want to paint that part - I wouldn't unless you are dead set on changing the color. Even then, I'd probably prioritize the AF paint as that would be functional.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby tomodda » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:20 pm

Anstigmat wrote:I guess my first question would be, how do you know when you're done sanding?


Ha! Good question.. the answer is "When you give up." You can at least console yourself that it's not a wooden boat, where the fairing process is even more insane. When you have the chance for some light reading, check this out.. from one of my favorite online blogs:

http://www.eyeinhand.com/2011/06/20/fairing/

How's the project going anyway?

Tom
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:42 am

The project is still basically in planning stages. My DS1 is out of the water in on the trailer. One of these days I'll head to my local hardware store and rent a power washer, and buy the supplies I need. That will be an orbital sander, the paper, acetone, some new rags...things like that.

The challenge I have is that I live in a fairly wooded area. It's a place called Westport Island Maine. I'm 35 but most of my neighbors are retirees. I'm just not totally sure how I'm going to get this gal on her belly. I understand I can do the dry launch onto some old tires or something soft. Ideally thought I'd like her up on some heavy duty saw horses because I also need to repair the center board. If placed right maybe I could do this with some kind of block and tackle system...not sure. I am open to ideas.

On the other projects, the Proctor mast is on it's way. I will need to modify the hole in the cuddy slightly to accept it, but the seller believes he can make a mast step receiver. When I re-rig her I will likely go to a turnbuckle or some other system as opposed to the single peg thing in the DS1.

For the actual paint job, I will need to rent a garage or wait until Spring I'm guessing. It's funny, the hardest part about this is just setting the thing up for the work, the work itself doesn't scare me so much.
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:30 am

Ok current plan based on some pics I saw on this forum.

I think I'm going to attempt to dry launch her onto hay bales. These seem like a cheap, soft surface that will hold the DS comfortably above the ground.

I'm planning on bracing her with an anchor from the rear with the stern sitting on two bales, then pulling the trailer forward a little at a time, adding in more bales as I go to catch her. I was thinking 3 sets of two for the front, center, and rear of the hull.

Then I am planning to use an oak tree plus blocks to lift one side at a time to access the CB, and get my sanding done. What are the load bearing points on the hull I can use to lift her? I could potentially also do this with a jack stand if it has a crank system...

Any obvious issues with this plan?
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby tomodda » Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:17 pm

Off the cuff responses:

Two bales stacked seems a bit high. When I painted my boat, I used a grand total of two bales, one aft, one fore. But why do this at all? Unless your ground is exceptionally rocky, just launch her onto a tarp stretched out on the ground. Then careen her over using the mast (from the partners, mind you!), First one way then the other.

Don't forget - Hay bales rot! A winter outside will reduce a haybale into a pile of old grass - wetness + freeze/thaw cycle will tear it apart. Suggest you either do this under cover somewhere (barn/garage) or cover your bales with plastic, garbage bags will do fine.

What do you need to do up in the centerboard? I'm asking is if this is something you can do with boat tipped over or better flipped? You'll want to flip your boat anyways for painting.. well, you CAN do it one side at a time, but flipped bot is so much easier for painting.

Can you get use of a barn? That's where I painted my boat - unheated but GREAT for keeping (most of) the bugs, rain, and general crap off my work while it dried.

Heat gun was the answer... I'd paint with weather in high 30's, heat gun it enough to stop being tacky, then let it fully dry/cure for one or two days before doing another coat. Of course, heat gun carefully, don't want to scorch, don't want to make the paint run either.

Assuming you can get a barn/shed/garage/something, and it has exposed beams, the think about doing what I did to flip your boat. A rolling tackle thru a (borrowed) chain hoist. I cinched that around the center of the boat and put safety straps at the fore and aft points (weren't really needed in the end). I had a friend help me to flip it over, but I flipped it back by myself (I was stronger and more confident then). It's really not THAT heavy, since you are not really lifting the entire 550lbs of the boat (the chain host does that work), only pushing around 200lbs or so. If you can squat 200lbs, then you can flip the boat - use your quads and hamstrings, NOT your back!!! There's a "moment of truth" when the boat is up on her edge and you need to run around to the other side and let her down (slowly!). That's the only point where you could really use another body, but even a pensioner can do it - just hold the boat upright. Anyway, it's doable.. '

Tom
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:53 pm

Honestly I don't have a barn available to me, and my little 'boat yard' is not the smoothest ground. I live in Maine and it's not the softest part of our yard. I think the wife would not actually allow me to just put her down anywhere and grind marine paint. :lol:

I'm accessing the CB because it's not descending. I suspect the square hole has rounded.

Honestly what I may try to do is get some dudes to help me flip her on the hay bales, then do the prep work. Based on conditions I'll decide to paint outside. Or I can ask around to see if someone will rent me a garage. Just kind of a PITA to be asking strangers to help me flip her even if it's only 1 or 2 people. I really don't have a network of friends to help with this, most of my neighbors are retirees with backs that will now allow them to do heavy lifting.

It's mostly a logistical problem.

In better news, I purchased the orbital sander and 150 grit pads today.
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby GreenLake » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:28 pm

Yes, for flipping over, you need a helper or two, but it's not that hard. It's more rolling than lifting.

I can think of a half dozen simple rigs that would allow you to use a winch or purchase to help you rotate your boat, but all are dependent on having fixed points.

Tom mentioned the hoisting in a sling that runs through a block. That requires a strong point overhead.

But look up the keyword "parbuckle" and I'm sure you can come of with some ways to use horizontal strong points to help rotate the boat without any helper: you need some rope/strap to prevent what will be the bottom edge in the rollover from moving, something else wrapped around the hull to be pulled from the other direction to tip the boat and something third to control the decent of the boat from the vertical. (One and three go to the same strong point on one side, two goes to a strong point on the opposite side.

For strap 1 you can use a fixed length rope, for strap 2 you might like to use a winch (e.g. a trailer winch mounted to a strong fence post) and for 3 you might prefer something like a purchase that you can release manually in a controlled manner. (and swap the two for the reverse operation). Or you can go comfort and get two electric winches with remote controls :)

Over the years on this forum I've seen about 1/2 dozen ideas how to get the boat set up for working on it, people are amazingly creative.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby tomodda » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:19 pm

As GL said, there's many ways to skin the boat flipping cat. Good luck!

And congrats on your first orbital sander! I love those things... Silly story, after I sold my house near Philly and moved downtown - 15 years ago - my orbital sander disappeared. I soon bought a used 24' sailboat, so naturally bought a new orbital sander. Then I moved to North Carolina - sold the boat, lost the new orbital sander. Various woodworking projects later, I bought a new (very nice, expensive) orbital sander. And now, this pandemic summer, I went rummaging around in my boxes, looking for a spare drill chuck, and WHAT tumbles out? My long-lost orbital sander from 10 years ago and my even longer lost orbital sander from 15 years ago! Moral of the story, orbital sanders are like expensive mismatched socks.They wander off into corners and breed spare clothes hangers and dust bunnies....

Anyway, enjoy your new sander, but keep a close eye on it :)
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby lemsteraak » Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:14 pm

You might want to check in with "Truck" respray operations if you live near a area where they work on semi trucks. I had one respray my Hobie Cat hulls with Imron, a very durable 2 part paint they use on airplanes. The cost of the paint was pretty high but the cost of the painting was very reasonable. They did an incredible job as they spray this stuff all day long. Auto paint shops were all fussy about what the prep was and paint cmpatablilities and such. The truck guys thought is was a fun project and didn't care what they sprayed. I had the hulls upside down really to go on the trailer so all they had to do was throw a tarp over the trailer for overspray and shoot paint. It came out stunning.

OK, the downside. Not so much with the method, that worked well but changing the color of fiberglass. The thing I forgot about was that you drag a Hobie over every beach and it grinds away at the paint. The Imron could take it but the gelcoat under the fiberglass was soft and would wear so the paint would get scratched off. This left the old color, which would then be a total contrast. Many 2 part advanced paint don't lend themselves to touchup so an old style paint would have been a better choice.

Rich
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Re: Cost of Pro Repaint for DS1?

Postby Anstigmat » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:41 pm

I'll be removing the tiller gudgeons for sanding and painting. What product should I use to reseal the screws after I install them again?

The paint around the wood does seem like it could use a refresh, but the wood does not look rotted. It's still very rigid anyway...

Moving right along with this...
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