DaySailer.org Forum

I bought my DS1 in June 07 and used it a number of times on several of the large undeveloped lakes near my home. It makes for a very nimble and fast boat that is great for exploring the pristine coves and shorelines with a little camping and fishing thrown in for good measure. My DS is very responsive to puffs and keeps me on guard to make the necessary trim adjustments so I don’t broach or turn turtle. Help is a long way off if I was to get into trouble.

I was wondering if anyone has added any ballast to their DS to compensate for the light weight hull and ample sail plan ? I do carry cruising and fishing gear on board most of the time. Probably 60ish pounds plus me as ballast. Thought about adding a sandbag or two centered low in the hull at the base of the mast. They should rest there without much movement and add some additional stability.


Any thoughts or experience on this ?.

I can only comment on how the boat handles with the inner hull full of water. I assume that that would be several hundred pounds. Mind you that ballast does move around, so the following comment must take that into account. Solid ballast may produce different characteristics. Basically with water in the hull, the boat wallows, and does not sail well. Without water in the inner hull, and four people on board, I found that is was slow as well. The nice thing about sandbags is that you can move them around, or remove them, if you don't like the results.

I would agree with you on placement however, just slightly behind the mast.

I've done a lot of solo sailing in a lot of conditions. I'm big - 235 lbs., 6' - but it's all moveable ballast :lol: and thus controllable, and I've really enjoyed the extra amount of control I have by just, for example, shifting my butt in or out from the centerline a few inches, or scooting fore and aft a bit. It's especially noticeable when I'm hiking.

I remember being very surprised when first having guests in the boat - my family. The boat felt much more stable and was much less twitchy, less responsive to people moving around. I found this to be true with four adults as well, which was more weight. This extra people weight was back on the seating, not down by the mast step, and I would think the location was as important as the extra poundage. The boat felt bigger and more stable.

So, yeah, try putting some extra weight in the boat. Think of having another person sitting with you and where they might be. What occurs to me is maybe those tube bags of sand you get for cars in the winter (now would be a great time to buy!) and putting them amidships beside or behind the centerboard trunk. You could, with your foot, nudge the bag slightly to help give you the trim you want, kind of like the old sandbagger sailboats of past centuries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandbagger_sloop

DO keep in mind that extra weight will be putting the boat lower in the water and thus possibly taking on more water over the gunwales in gusts.

Carlos

Adding weight to the C/B would give much more righting moment. The lower you go the less weight needed and it would be out of the cockpit. When I worked for a wooden boat builder we cut a 8-10" hole through(across) a C/B at the bottom and poured in melted lead (wear respirator) then covered with a layer of fiberglass, this was on a 16' wooden boat. If you tried this on a DS I would imagine you might need a strap or line around the handle to hold the C/B in the up position as that little lock might not be able to handle the increased weight. I don't know we this wouldn't work on a DS. The similar 19' Flying Scot sailboat has a 75lb C/B with lead at the bottom but with a block and tackle arrangement for lifting the board.

Just a thought.

According to the class rules, it is illegal to add balast to your centerboard. If you want to race, you probably shouldn't. The maximum weight for the CB is 25 lbs.

My boat is underweight, so I will have to add balast to mine before I go to a sanctioned event. I think the best place to add it is probably just in front of the CB trunk, between it and the Mast step. My thinking on this is to get a few scuba diving weights, and a piece of the webbing that divers use for weight belts. (I'm a Diver too.) Then I would trim it to the right length and screw them into that square "hump" that runs from the mast step to the CB trunk.

I added a rather heavy battery for my trolling motor between the centerboard trunk and mast step on my little 14' Meteor (Javlin wannabee). Then some thick southern yellow pine floorboards added another fairly significant amount of low weight. It really made the boat feel more stable. Pics on my homepage at http://www.geocities.com/davefromainetoo/Sailstar2.html
Dave Whitney
Poland, Maine

Thanks for all the input. Looks like we all agree that well placed ballast should only add to the stability of my light weight DS1 and make single handing a little less scary.

I didn’t mention that I will also be adding a mounted battery just forward of the mast step and will place the two 20ish pound sand bags just aft of the mast step. My floor boards are ash and also add weight low in the hull. The floor boards do not continue but only a few inches into the cutty so the battery and sand bags will be pretty much as low in the hull as possible.

I won’t be racing in any class sanctioned race so I am not to concerned about the legality of my DS. Its for cruising and fishing only. (Trolling under sail is a blast !)

I like the idea of weighting the center board and may do that after a couple test sails with the battery and sand bags.

Dave - I downloaded your pics.

Thanks everyone. You folks are super !!

I thought I'd resurrect an old thread here because I'm thinking about adding some ballast to my DS1 for this Summer. I've noticed when I have four adults in her she sails with a significant increase in stability.

Obviously if I could weight the CB that would be ideal, but I'm not sure 1. really how to do that and 2. if it's even a good idea to stress the CB handle like that. I do use a line affixed to the back of my CB to raise it but the lever is still used to lower it.

Does the ballast really need to be at the centerline? What if I placed about 100-130lbs under each seat. Wouldn't that effectively simulate extra adults?

This is an interesting topic.

I've sailed on a DSII in "expedition" mode, with hundreds of pounds of gear, food and water stowed in the cuddy. That did make the boat noticeably more stable in challenging conditions.

However, we had strong winds every day, so we did not really pay a penalty, other than not being able to get on a plane.

Our ballast was both useful and increased stability; that's different from pouring a concrete slab on the cuddy floor.

Now, what else would be heavy, but also useful? What about a pair or lead-acid batteries, secured around the base of the mast, and used to power an electric motor?

Or you can use four of them and either enjoy much longer range, or convert an old outboard to electric, instead of using a trolling motor, and get a bit of speed going. (You'll find discussions of how to do such a conversion on the internet, just not here).

Sounds like an interesting idea but I'm not sure I'm quite ready for that level of project... The batteries do sound like they would make good ballast through and at least according to the site, they'd power an ePropulsion Spirit 1.0 outboard.

Ideally I'd like to stow the weight in the seats however because they'd simply be out of the way completely. I gotta do some organization before launch this summer because once I stowed the boom tent away I felt like there was just a bunch of 'stuff' in the Cuddy. Didn't feel particularly ship shape!

Because of my experience last year I'm actually adding about 3" of height to the bottom paint...basically covering the old boot stripe. Gunk tended to grow on that section if the DS rode a little low when it got some water in it after a big storm. Also my previous outboard was over weight generally and the boat tended to list to that side.

Maybe I'll ask a machine shop if they have some lead as it would be easy to insert into the seats through the inspection ports I installed.

Please do yourself a favor and do not add ballast in the seats.

The reason is that it will destroy your fore-aft balance. It will make your boat squat, where it will forever try to "climb" out of the hole as you sail.

I have a small motor (EP Carry) that is just about able to push my boat to 3 knots. When I climb on the foredeck, it goes almost 10% faster. Just from me repositioning my own weight.

The proper location for any added ballast is around the mat step.

What people have done is cut the cuddy floor, and made trays for their batteries that rest on the hull. That way, part of the volume of the batteries is not actually "in" the cuddy, and there are only a set of half-height lids to cover the tops.

If you're not ready for e propulsion (I hear only good things about the Spirit 1.0), you could still make trays in the right size and just place some ingots in there for now (with straps, like you'd also need for batteries).

Most electric motors are lighter than typical outboards and saving weight at the stern is critical. Looks like your boat is already squatting a bit (judging what you write about the boot stripe). Or you have waterlogged foam somewhere.

Wow this may be on par for "oldest thread revival"! 14 years old?

Anyway, my suggestion - strap a keg of beer to the mast step. Bonus points: Fill with Lager for light-air days, Porter or Stout for heavy air!


Or just fill some of these with sand: https://www.amazon.com/Eurmax-Saddlebag ... 00EP9AC5K/


Tom

Tom, that's just perfect!

Here’s what I have been working on for ballast:

Melted down about 150 ponds of scrap lead and poured into mini bread pans. Each pan holds about 11 or 12 pounds of lead. Fits perfectly under the floorboards. Planning to screw the floorboards down to the frames I epoxied to the hull last year. Not sure about the weight distribution. I am usually alone in the boat with a bunch of cruising/camping gear up in the cuddy, so I figured further aft would be better...

Location is clever for being able to secure these with the floor boards. Make sure you can lift said boards while underway, though. If you can't something will happen that makes that something you wish you could.

I still maintain that further forward would be better, unless you sail alone but with gear for three.