Split Rudder Repair

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Split Rudder Repair

Postby csrguth » Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:37 pm

Rudder on my 1980 Rebel DS is split on the trailing edge. Looks like I need to do my first fiberglass repair. Assume that I can use come product to clamp and glue the inside and then need to sand and glass tape the edge. Then need to sand that smooth. Suggestions / guidance? Picture attached. Scroll to see the split.
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Split rudder-s.jpg
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1980 Rebel, Sail# 11041
Pummakale, Turkish for Cotton Castle
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Re: Split Rudder Repair

Postby GreenLake » Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:42 pm

Both the West System and the System Three websites have readable guides on doing epoxy work.

In general, you can probably effect a repair along the lines you discuss. However, It's not much harder to simply build a new foil. In a project like this, the work for fair and finish the blade probably takes the majority of the work. So, while a replacement from scratch appears more radical it's not necessarily a huge increase in effort. The benefit would be that you could end up with a better foil.

See the thread on building a rudder for some ideas.
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Re: Split Rudder Repair

Postby GreenLake » Tue Oct 14, 2014 2:27 pm

Let me add to this a bit. If this is the trailing edge of your rudder, the foil shape on it would be rather poor. You'd wand a wide, round profile at the leading edge and a narrow tapering sharp but squared off edge at the end (approximately). My thought was that if you spend a lot of effort on the repair, the results will be disappointing because it looks like restoring the rudder as-is would simply return it to a suboptimal shape.

On the other hand, if you are looking for a quick fix to have something to splash in the water next weekend (if your sailing season hasn't ended), then look into the epoxy glues that come in a cartridge. System Three's Gel Magic or West System's 6-10. You can squeeze those directly with the applicator fairly far into your cracks with no muss. Then you would clamp lightly, just enough to push the rudder into shape (not to apply pressure to the joint as you would with, say, wood glue).

Afterwards a few strips of cloth, some sanding, some epoxy based fairing compound, (System Three's QuickFair which comes ready mixed, except for being 2-component) or your own mix of epoxy and fillers. Some paint to hide the epoxy from UV, and you'd be back in business. Perhaps not a bad project to use to get some exposure to epoxy / glass work (just don't expose your skin to uncured epoxy, use gloves).

But before you descend into an orgy of fairing, sanding and painting, read the thread on building a rudder (and look for similar info on the web). Might give you an idea why I recommend that you consider a replacement. It's really not that challenging - the most labor intensive part is always the fairing and finish. Rudders, like CB's are really the places on your boat that are the most sensitive to shape and surface preparation. You might even find your rudder more effective after a rebuild.

In my case, one the benefits is that the rudder blade is a bit buoyant. Makes for less weight dragging down the stern, but also for an easier time mounting it.
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Re: Split Rudder Repair

Postby willyhays » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:44 am

I have a rudder blade that you can have for free if you want. Structurally it is good. It could be used as is, but cosmetically it could use some work. If you pay shipping I'll send it your way. Of course, if you are eager to do your first glass repair I would not want to deprive you of that joy.
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Re: Split Rudder Repair

Postby TheFloatingBear » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:15 am

I’m new to the forum and new owner of a Spindrift Daysailer 1.

Its rudder has some significant delamination that appears to have been repaired before. Rather than start a new thread, I'll add to a similar one

Prior to my taking ownership it had been sitting over the winter with the rudder in the cockpit and covered by a tarp. I figured I should tackle the repair now before getting it wet again. After drilling holes to repair per the West Sytems Guide it's apparent the core is both still damp, and slightly deteriorated in spots. I can hear loose bits shaking around inside near the bottom third. (Anyone have a weight for a dry rudder?)

Ultimately, it looks like I'll have to remove the skin and replace the core or just build a new rudder. However, I'd really like to get sailing sooner than later. But drying out the current core to inject epoxy or doing the proper core replacement sounds like it could take me awhile.

I shop-vac-ed it for 20 min or so (not much water came out, just some slight moistness by the holes under suction) and now it is resting wiht the exhaust of the dehumidifier blowing onto the side I drilled holes into… but I wanna get on the water.

How much heat can the foam in these cores take? Seems like 24 hours in my oven at its lowest setting of 170 would dry things right up…. But if it is true that even painting foam core fiberglass work a dark color is a bad idea then the oven likely is as well.

I've been reading many, many posts all over about wet rudders and often the drying process is described as months not days. If I want to get on the water soon, is my only option to cut away the class over the delam area, remove the offending foam, replace an reshape, then reattach the original skin? That sounds like so much more work that injecting with epoxy, tossing on some new paint and being done with it. I’m not looking for a 10 year fix, but getting on the water and through the summer would be great!

The other area of concern is where the rudder pivots and bolts to aluminum plates.. The inner portion of that hole is also deteriorating (see photo) and I was able to pull out several chunks of crumbling something or other. Should I just fill that area full of thickened epoxy as much as possible then put in the well waxed bolt to keep the hole open? I feel like the only permanent repair would be to drill it out larger and replace with a stainless steel tube.

Thanks for any suggestions!
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Rudder bottom small.jpg
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Rudder mount hole small.jpg
Rudder mount hole small.jpg (191.57 KiB) Viewed 9165 times
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Re: Split Rudder Repair

Postby GreenLake » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:02 am

TheFloatingBear wrote:I’m new to the forum and new owner of a Spindrift Daysailer 1.


Welcome to the forum!

TheFloatingBear wrote:Its rudder has some significant delamination that appears to have been repaired before. Rather than start a new thread, I'll add to a similar one


Yep, you found a close match. Let's look at your variant of this issue.

TheFloatingBear wrote:Prior to my taking ownership it had been sitting over the winter with the rudder in the cockpit and covered by a tarp. I figured I should tackle the repair now before getting it wet again. After drilling holes to repair per the West Sytems Guide it's apparent the core is both still damp, and slightly deteriorated in spots. I can hear loose bits shaking around inside near the bottom third. (Anyone have a weight for a dry rudder?)


The stock rudder is really heavy; with the weight where it hurts: at the transom. And it is hydronamically a disaster zone (no foil shape). Just saying.

That out of the way, I wouldn't worry about the foam's condition other than trapped water. (And the idea of not letting any more water getting in there is good).

TheFloatingBear wrote:Ultimately, it looks like I'll have to remove the skin and replace the core or just build a new rudder. However, I'd really like to get sailing sooner than later. But drying out the current core to inject epoxy or doing the proper core replacement sounds like it could take me awhile.


There's not enough "there" in the existing rudder to make it worth rebuilding or restoring to factory conditions. There are some band aids that will allow you to get sailing, while you explore your options re: building a full replacement.

For a quick repair the ultimate goal is to get the rudder watertight, and to structurally connect the two halves of the skin.

Forget about half of all the stuff that's in the West System manual. (But the other half still applies). So, let's walk you through it.

First the split:
1) define a repair area 1-2" around the split and tape around it
2) grind away any gelcoat and not very much of the laminate, if any
3) taper this a bit towards the edges of your repair, but forget about 1 in 12 bevels
4) apply 2-3 layers of glass cloth, going up and to and a bit over the tape
5) use neat epoxy West System is fine, I tend to use SystemThree SilverTip, you can also use MAS.
5) be sure to follow instructions on measuring and mixing to the letter! Each manufacturer's epoxy may have different ratios and ratios vary whether determined by volume or weight.
6) I found pre-printed measuring cups for medicines work best for me for small batches.
7) before full cure, trim the larger parts of any excess
8) after the cure, sand things smooth. (Dont' worry if there's bump; this is a temporary repair).
9) after a few days, spraypaint with auto paint to cover the epoxy against UV
(don't leave the rudder in the water except when sailing)

Deal with any other small cracks / splits the same way, esp. if they can admit water. (If there are areas of extended gelcoat cracks, scuff sand those and cover with neat epoxy as a barrier against water).

The pivot:
1) get a nylon bushing (optional)
2) drill out the hole a bit wider than needed.
3) fill with structural filler
4) you can make your own from bits of glass fibers mixed with epoxy, or buy a can of 3M High Strength Marine filler (polyester-based, but works well for this application).
5) drill out the hole to fit the bushing (or the bare bolt)
6) no need to paint, there's not going to be UV damage

These quick repairs will get you on the water with minimal delay. The rudder will be functional.

I would not bother with "injecting epoxy" or any other attempts at improving the core of that rudder (other than very locally around the pivot, but even there just enough to seal it).

I would not spend "months" trying to dry this thing and definitely would not experiment with heat. The goal is to seal it up "as is" and be able to splash it without making the situation worse.

Instead, focus your energies on plans for a new rudder. The effort for that is less than for some of the "rebuild" scenarios you threw out here. It will take a few weekends, but mainly because you'll need to wait for things to cure at various stages, the biggest part of the actual work is the final surface preparation (sanding, fairing and painting).

You might want to consider whether to rebuild the rudder head at the same time (I did), and whether you'd want to beef that one up. Recommended for expedition-style sailing. My own project is described in "Building a Rudder". This rudder has worked well for several seasons now. See the update in the last post in that thread.
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Re: Split Rudder Repair

Postby TheFloatingBear » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:26 pm

Thanks, GreenLake!! Very, very much appreciated.

I can totally get on board with the long term plan of letting this lead weight of a rudder go as soon as next spring. It certainly is a heavy and awkwardly shaped.

The entire leading edge has cracks to some degree or another so I will likely glass pretty much all the way around the edges. By the time my epoxy gets here on Monday, it should be prepped and ready to go. I’ll likely inject some epoxy into the lower, dryer, hollower end just for good measure - Can't be much holding the skins together down there.. Would a single layer of 6 oz glass be sufficient? There is not much actual movement of the pieces, just plenty of ways for water to get in.

Before put too much work into anything I need to get my very-inexpensive-daysailer in the water.

It has been years since I've sailed, and decades since summers with my sunfish (and a little bit of Hobie Cat) as a teen. Excited, but nervous :)

I’ll let you know how the repair goes.
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Re: Split Rudder Repair

Postby GreenLake » Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:14 pm

I would not "inject" liquid epoxy, but thicken some of it into a paste(*) and use it to replace the white gunk that you see in the split. If that's solidly packed, then you don't need much glass to hold the halves together. You might double up near likely contact points with the ground...

(*) or use the filler I mentioned
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Re: Split Rudder Repair

Postby carl10579 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:37 am

Ya know, a repair like on the red rudder in the opening photo is fairly easy --- if the part is bone dry. But saturated with water makes things interesting.

I might be tempted to clamp the rudder tight, drill a line of holes about an inch or so from the edge and 3/4" apart and sew the thing together with stainless steel safety wire. Then to finish it off use some tile grout to fill in the voids.

The pivot hole is higher up and if dry would clean it up and use an epoxy stick and re-drill. Could also drill it larger and wedge an oak dowel in with a little Gorilla Glue (needs some water to activate) trim and re-drill.

Actually I have that same rudder in the shop from the DS 1 that I gave away. The guy took the boat and trailer. I wanted some cash for the mast, rudder and sails and I never heard from him again?

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