Access to area under foredeck

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Access to area under foredeck

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:24 pm

I’ve been pondering opening up the area under TRW’s foredeck for two main reasons: the existing bow eye is quite non-standard, and I was concerned because the rear stemhead bolt goes down through at an odd angle. Also, it would be nice to be able to utilize some of that space for storage. I had purchased an 8” port that I originally intended to install in the forward cuddy bulkhead, but I know of two other DS2 owners who have them on the foredeck, and decided that would be a better place for it in terms of being able to get at the inner bow eye and stemhead areas.

Here's what greeted me when I cut the hole. There was a full 39 gal trash bag's worth of foam blocks in there! Foam was dry, and will be going back in there.

1990

Existing quite non-standard bow eye that has had me a bit concerned. Larger bolt with nut goes all the way through and out the other side.

1991

Lower white-ish spot is the other end of the piece of line in there.

1992

Inside view of bow eye area. Obviously there was something else there originally! The horizontal thing is the through bolt, and you can see the piece of line. I believe that may have been used as a "plug" in the original hole.

1993

... and this is what used to be there. Found this down in the bilge after removing the foam blocks. Rot probably occurred after bolt broke and it fell down there.

1994 1995

Stemhead underside. Rear bolt is visible, front bolt is covered by the big blob of rock-hard filler or whatever that stuff is they used up there! L-bar is flush up against the underside of foredeck, and the vertical portion is encased in, or just hidden by, the filler.

1996

Rear bolt is not centered on L-bar, but not too close to the edge. I will at least be adding a nyloc nut (or two!) to this bolt.

1997

Foredeck cleat bolts, nuts, and backing plates look fine.

1998

It’s difficult to see the angle of the rear bolt, and there’s no way to really tell what's going on with/between the L-bar and filler blob ...

1999

Port installation

2000 2001

Soooo … now for some decisions!

Definitely going to replace the bow eye, just need to decide between the single-bolt or U-bolt style.

I’ll add the nyloc nut(s) to the rear stemhead bolt as mentioned. Was also hoping to be able to add some sort of reinforcement between the bow eye and stemhead, but will need to figure out first if I can, or even want to, get that big blob of hard goop out of there.

Hmmmmm …
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby JD11 » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:33 pm

I like this! great pictures. Tim, now that you have it open, do you think the room/storage you gain makes it worth while to put in the access port?
I am considering the same thing. Would you go with a larger port, like an oblong 8-10" instead of round?
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Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:58 pm

Thanks! Added storage under there was just an ancillary benefit - the real reason was for the access to the stemhead and bow eye. The storage area isn't all that much when the foam blocks are left in place. Jeadstx found some tool bags at HD that he's going to use in there, and I'll probably do the same or similar.

Had I known initially that I would be putting the port on the foredeck, I would have gone with a 6" port. There is *some* curvature to the surface up there, and I was concerned that the 8" ring would have to flex too much to fit flat, but it's fine. An oblong port might not be ... ?
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby jeadstx » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:48 pm

I did this also recently. I installed a 6" port, plenty of room to work inside. I had to do the port installation since my bow eye nut on the backside had worked it's way loose and needed tightening. Like Tim, I'm going to add nyloc nuts to the bolts for the stem head. Even tho my cleat backing plates are OK, I plan to replace the backing plates as well. Storage there was not a primary reason for the port, but since there is a port there now I figured it might be a good place to store some line and other light weight things. It was surprisingly dry and clean in there despite the fact that I have capsized my boat twice since I've had it.

Good write up Tim.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby JD11 » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:31 am

Gotcha. So if you guys were go to put access ports in, where would you put them?

One for each side of the seats in the cockpit?
One for the forward vberth compartment? (does this mean I don,t need for the deck; or substitute deck access for vberth?)

thanks
J
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Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby Alan » Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:06 pm

I put an inspection port in the cuddy bulkhead of my 1980 DSII. I also found a bunch of dry foam in random sizes.

bow tank opened up for inspection cover.jpg
bow tank opened up for inspection cover.jpg (139.82 KiB) Viewed 1280 times


The wood backing plate for the bow cleat is in good condition, the only problem being rust on one of the bow hook nuts.

bow U-bolt inside.jpg
bow U-bolt inside.jpg (137.11 KiB) Viewed 1280 times


The stemhead and bow cleat backing plates are in good condition, and as with TRW, the forward stemhead bolt and lower portion of the L-bar are covered by goop.

stemhead and bow cleats inside.jpg
stemhead and bow cleats inside.jpg (142.01 KiB) Viewed 1280 times
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Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:42 pm

Lucky you Alan, to have an intact wood bow eye backing plate! ;-P

Thanks for posting the reply and pics. I'm not surprised that we have very similar "situations" up in there, given that your boat is an '80 and mine's a '79. Do you know if the U-bolt bow eye is original to your boat? That may be a change they made between '79 and '80, because TRW definitely had a single-bolt version. Also, is that an 8" port you installed in the bulkhead? Have you had to actually reach up in there and do any work on bow eye/stemhead/cleats, and if so, was it easily accomplished?

J: I suppose you could put ports in both the bulkhead and foredeck, but that might be overkill? If you want/need to get old wet foam out from underneath the seats and replace same with pool noodles/soda bottles/what have you, you will most certainly need to install ports at some location, either on the seat fronts themselves, or in the aft cuddy bulkhead (I'm assuming you have a DS2?) ...

Thanks John! Hey, do you have any pics of what your stemhead L-bar looks like up in there?
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
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Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby jeadstx » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:34 pm

I have pictures of what everything looks like, but have trouble posting from my Kindle. I can post pictures on Monday. Mine all look similar. Tim, I think when they finished putting that goop on the stem head, they put what was left on our CB bolts.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
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Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby Alan » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:02 pm

Tim, I'm almost certain it was a six-inch port (I've got the boat pretty thoroughly wrapped up and hope to get it unwrapped for tinkering in the next couple of days).

I'm entirely certain I'd recommend an eight-inch port. I'm skinny and there's just enough room for me to work through the hole.

I used the access to install a second stemhead so I could attach a jib furler, here:

second stemhead.jpg
second stemhead.jpg (124.25 KiB) Viewed 1229 times


The bow hook must be original. Here's what it looks like from outside the boat:

bow hook from outside.jpg
bow hook from outside.jpg (149.16 KiB) Viewed 1229 times


And here's a closeup of where it comes through the hull:

bow hook from outside - detail.jpg
bow hook from outside - detail.jpg (160.18 KiB) Viewed 1229 times


The gelcoat in this area is exactly the same color as on the rest of the boat, and looks completely original. (The chipping also looks kind of ominous, especially in the closeup - maybe I should do something about reinforcing it better from inside.)
Alan
 
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Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby TIM WEBB » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:47 pm

jeadstx wrote:I have pictures of what everything looks like, but have trouble posting from my Kindle. I can post pictures on Monday. Mine all look similar. Tim, I think when they finished putting that goop on the stem head, they put what was left on our CB bolts.

John

John, that stuff up in the bow is *WAY* harder than the stuff on the CB bolt!

Thanks so much for all the pix Alan! I'm skinny too, and it's all I can do to work through the 8" port on the foredeck. Not to mention even being able to see what you're doing up there ... ?

Looks like you've been able to install an impressive array of items up there tho!

Yes, your bow eye does look original, and that may be one of the changes they made between '79 and '80 ... ?

I'd say it looks pretty good on the inside and out. Maybe just touch it up here and there, but it sure looks a helluva lot better than what I'm dealing with!
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:28 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby jeadstx » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:46 pm

I'm not skinny and I knew there was no way I was going to get into my cuddy cabin to put one on the forward bulkhead. I figured I might be able to get in there, but probably not back out. The fore deck was the best choice for me.

Here is what my bow eye looked like when I decided to put the inspection port in on the fore deck.
2014

This is how it looked after tightening the nut on the bow eye. I plan to add a nyloc nut as well.
2013

Here are the installation pictures and inside the bow area.
2012
Bow Eye backing plate
2009
Starboard cleat backing plate
2010
Stem head backing plate. The aluminum bar on the port side is a repair done for the port bow cleat when I first got the boat. The repair was done without putting in an inspection port.
2011
Port closed. Aluminum plate under the port cleat is part of the earlier repair.
2008

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby jeadstx » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:03 pm

This is what my stem head and port bow cleat looked like when I bought the boat in 2006. The stem head was an easy fix. Bought a new part from D&R, ran a tap thru the backing plate and put in new bolts. The cleat however was more difficult since this was done before I found this forum and before I learned what an inspection port was. The aluminum bat in the previous post is part of the repair I did thru that small opening in the deck where the cleat was pushed thru. You can see on the previous picture a string attached to the bar for putting it thru the hole so I could get the cleat bolts into it. There was a cover plate between the cleat and the deck to seal the hole.
2015

This was the cleat after the repair.
2016

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
jeadstx
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:10 am
Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Access to area under foredeck

Postby Swashbuckley » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:37 am

Love the topside installation, will have to do this at some point in the future. Thanks for sharing.
"Tiny Dancer" #6816
Learn Something New Every Day
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