New 41 year old Daysailer II

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New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby KingsTransom » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:31 am

Hi all,
I acquired a Daysailer II that sat for nearly 30 years. I am working through the boat and trailer (Texas Royal, Little Dude) to get them sea-worthy and road-worthy, respectively. I thought I would work from the bottom up:
First clean, inspect and repack the wheel bearings. Plenty of experience with cars, where parts are ordered by make/model. Zero experience with trailers, which seem to order parts by size. Any way to buy replacements before I disassemble it?

Replace the dry-rotted keel rollers. The trailer has 3 keel rollers and 2 bunks. Is it safe to remove and replace the rollers, one at a time, while the boat remains on the trailer (parked)? These look to be 4" long with a 1/2" shaft, but I won't really know until I get one out. Does anyone know the size for this trailer? Should I replace the whole assembly in order to use wider rollers? The middle roller appears to be at or near the front of the centerboard, providing little if any support for bumpy road trips. Is this a problem?

The bow-eye has left the boat. I bought a stainless steel version to replace the rusty one, but cannot catch any threads on the nut I assume to be on the inside of the bow. Would it be a waste of time to use epoxy to set the eye bolt, or do I need to cut a hole in the bow bulkhead to gain access? If so, is the backer plate a form-fit piece of stainless steel that might be worth fishing out to re-use? I this a water-tight compartment for floatation that should not have access ports bored into it? If not, does it drain somewhere?

Should there be a ball check valve in the cockpit bailer? Mine looks to have none, making me think water could leak in when still.

How best to fix the cracks in the gel coat on the coaming? There are a couple of star cracks, a couple of cracks across the top, and one circular crack that yields when pressed. Is there wood under the coaming that might have rotted?

That's probably enough to keep busy for a while.

Thanks,

Scott
Last edited by KingsTransom on Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby itguy1010 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:09 am

HI, Scott and welcome. Congrats on the new Daysailer. Mine is 43 years old and I was fortunate to find it well cared for.

Regarding your trailer (I'll let more capable and experienced members answer the rest of your questions)...

The trailer wheel bearings are usually pretty easy to source and can be replaced as a kit with the rear seals. On mine I just jacked it up, removed a wheel and the popped the hub cover off with a chisel and rubber mallet. No need to be rough, just a light tap or two and it will pop off. Remove the cotter pin and nut and the whole hub should slide right off. The outer bearing will have a number stamped into the side of the race and you can use that number to cross reference a replacement set. It also helps to know the shaft diameter but they're pretty standard. On my sets I got an outer bearing, an inner bearing, outer and inner races and a rear seal for around $18.00. I also picked up a nice little plastic bearing packer and marine grade grease to make the job easier. Personally, I didn't trust that my original bearings were worth keeping since it was so inexpensive to just replace everything. Just make sure you clean the hubs and axle shaft spindles really well before you put it all back together. There's quite a few YouTube vids on the process for trailers in case you want to see how its done.

Lots of opinions about bearing buddies that supposedly keep water out with positive pressure. Just do a google search on them and you'll see what I mean. I opted to not use the bearing buddies and will just repack every season.

Have fun with the boat and trailer restoration. Put some pictures up when you get a chance.

Eric
Eric White
The "Jackie Beck"
73 DSII #6428
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:44 pm

KingsTransom wrote:The bow-eye has left the boat. I bought a stainless steel version to replace the rusty one, but cannot catch any threads on the nut I assume to be on the inside of the bow. Would it be a waste of time to use epoxy to set the eye bolt, or do I need to cut a hole in the bow bulkhead to gain access? If so, is the backer plate a form-fit piece of stainless steel that might be worth fishing out to re-use? I this a water-tight compartment for floatation that should not have access ports bored into it? If not, does it drain somewhere?

Should there be a ball check valve in the cockpit bailer? Mine looks to have none, making me think water could leak in when still.

That's probably enough to keep busy for a while.

Thanks,

Scott
Scott, can't help you much with the bearing or roller ?s, as TRW's trailer has sealed hubs and all bunks, no rollers except one near the bow.

As for the bow eye, see my gallery for pics and descriptions of the replacement I did last year. Yes, you will need an access port, either in the foredeck or forward cuddy bulkhead. I chose the foredeck mainly for easier access. The bow tank is not sealed, as it opens and can drain to the bilge, but it is filled with foam blocks. Looking now, I guess I failed to post any pics of the new bow eye, but I used a SS U-bolt style, and backed it with a piece of composite lumber shaped to fit the recess shown in the "before" pics.

Yes, the bailer should have a ball, but the retaining pins have a habit of departing and taking the ball with them. Just use a stopper plug in the cockpit sole end ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby jeadstx » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:07 am

My boat and trailer are 43 years old.

I repaired the bow eye as well by putting an inspection port in the bow (fore deck). There are some pictures in my gallery showing the hole and inside the bow. Hardest part of the installation was getting the nerve up to cut the hole in the deck, the rest was easy after that.

As for the trailer. The bearings are standard sizes and available off the shelf. I usually get parts from "Tractor Supply". They sell bearings, axles, springs, bearing buddies, and trailer parts in general. I've gotten replacement rollers and bunk supports from "Academy". I'm refurbishing a trailer for another boat currently (trailer is over 50 years old) and it uses standard parts as well.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby KingsTransom » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:46 pm

Hi all, and thanks for the replies.
My neighbor was kind enough to tow the boat the half mile to my house. I bolted the trailer hitch on the Honda Civic. That should be interesting.

The starboard wheel hub was sloppy, so I started there. I tapped gently around the end of the Bearing Buddy with a brass hammer for almost a half hour to gain about 1/32 of an inch at which point I lost patience and bashed it. Came right off after about 5 hits. It makes sense to play nice, especially if one hopes use the old bearings, but at some point, the job must get done. The bearing was not adjusted properly, hence the slop, but the bearings look good, with no Brinelling and only minor discoloration, probably from air, time and grease, not heat. Wheel bearings are stout beasts and I don't replace them if they're good. The seal was trash as shown by the spray of grease. I had to use a sharpening stone to clean up the bottom of the axle - probably got dropped on a cinder block in the past. The nut threads are also beat up. I've not yet found replacement parts, but that's what you get when you start a project on a Sunday.

I think Tim's right by implying the bow eye needs to be fixed from the inside, rather than grinding out the hole an using epoxy to glue in a new eye bolt from the outside. Is it possible to use the bow cleats temporarily? I'd like to get her on the water sooner than later, and the bow eye project would be a day or two. I think I need a SS angle-iron formed to the outside of the bow, or at least a SS fender washer bent to match, for the outer nut on the eye bolt, else nothing prevents the eye from bashing the hull if the eye gets hit. What did you use to cut the inspection port hole? I have a 6" carbide grit hole saw for installing can lights in plaster ceilings. I've cut so many holes in the walls and ceilings of my house that I would not hesitate to cut a hole in the top side of the boat.

I found the bailer plug (De Persia Automatic Bailer), check ball and rubber seal in the cooler. Looks like a rubber O-ring holds the plug in the housing.

Some new questions:
The trailer bunks are 2x4s held with the narrow edge against the boat. The edge of the bunk is sawn square, so just the inboard edge contacts the hull. The stern extends three feet past the end of the bunk boards. The bunks have left a minor concave bow to the hull. At minimum, I would like to cut the edge of the bunk boards to be parallel to the hull, and replace the carpet. How might I support the hull while I do this? What sort of carpet can I use? What sort of glue? I have a can of 3M 77 contact spray-on cement.

How does one remove the bilge plug? It's a plastic plug with a fragile-looking dorsal fin to grip. I assume the plug held in by O-rings. Finger grip is inadequate, Channel Locks seem likely to break it. Assuming I get it out, what is a better replacement?

The sails are original. The jib window is oily, as happens to vinyl as it breaks down. Is there a way to clean this without fogging the window? I've used 95% isopropyl on old vinyl-covered loudspeakers, but that was wood-grain and it did not matter if it fogged. Is it best to rip out the stitching and replace the window material?

Thanks again,

Scott
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:46 pm

I just re-did my trailer bunks. I added bolsters to let the bunks conform to the hull, and replaced the bunks that previously supported the boat on its corners with carpeted 2x4 wood. I might replace it with 2x6 that comes all the way aft to the transom later, but what I have now it way better than sitting on the corners of 2x4s. None the less, I just took the boat to the ramp and tied it off as far down the launch dock/ramp as possible. Nobody had a problem with me being parked there, and did not impede anyone from launching the their boat. As a matter of fact, I received a lot of empathy for tending a trailer repair job while others were headed out on the water. Anyway, my advice is just launch it and tie off, and then work on the trailer.

As for the bilge plug, you might have to finesse it loose with a wrench or pliers, but you are correct... try not to break it. That fin is your key to opening it in the future. Fortunately, mine has always just unscrewed. Once you have it loose, you will use it so much that problem will be a thing if the past.

If you need cheap starter sails, Intensity Sails makes a very economical set. I have them and think they are just fine for cruising. If you want to race then you can turn $400 into $2k quickly. But I think being a consumable, the price is right and you can replace often. The Intensity sails will have windows in them that are un-fogged ;) If you want to spring for something a little nicer, Rudy at D&R Marine deals all the Neil Pryde (original O'Day Daysailer sails), and they run $700-$800.
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby KingsTransom » Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:35 pm

Yes, 95% isopropyl alcohol did a good job cleaning the oily residue off the jib window.
A set of wide pliers got the bilge plug free.

On to the ropes. At least 29 years old, formerly white, now grey. Is there any pressing need to replace them? I've never heard of a modern synthetic rope breaking. I plan to toss them in the washer to see if they clean up. Many of the ends were spliced, which I cut off. The outhaul has knots that I cannot untie (figure-8 and overhand). Is there any magic, or just cut & replace it? If washing does not clean them up, then off to West Marine for new lines. Could easily be $200.

The 3/8" mainsheet seems appropriate, but the 1/2" jib sheet seems ridiculously oversized. I've seen this on other boats. Why are such large lines used for the jib?

The shrouds are pinned to the mast with cotter pins. I dislike the idea of freeway driving with SS cables and hardware strapped to the mast with Velcro or other straps - I'd rather be able to pull them off for the road. The DS II manual shows keeper rings instead of cotter pins so that should work. Is there any method of securing the shrouds to the spreader ends that affords easier set-up and tear-down than the wire and electrical tape method shown in the manual?

Scott
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby Alan » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:06 am

"On to the ropes. At least 29 years old, formerly white, now grey. Is there any pressing need to replace them? I've never heard of a modern synthetic rope breaking. I plan to toss them in the washer to see if they clean up."

I got a fat bloody lip from a modern synthetic rope that broke, and had to talk really fast to keep my crew from dragging me to the local ER. If you're talking about the halyards, I'd buy new ones from D&R. Good quality, good price, they fit, and they come with new shackles.
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby KingsTransom » Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:27 am

Thanks Alan, you've convinced me to re-rope the boat. A snapping line can cost you an eye.

Any suggestions on dock lines (length,weight) and fenders (size, number)?

Any arguments for putting the bow-eye inspection port on the foredeck vs. the bow bulkhead? It seems to me that one might want to step on the foredeck, and a port would do nothing to improve strength there, while the bow bulkhead may not be carrying much shear stress at the center. What is the minimum size to allow one to remove the foam blocks, and work freely.
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby DigitalMechanic » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:26 am

The outhaul has knots that I cannot untie


Maybe try a rigging knife if you can get ahold of one?

If washing does not clean them up, then off to West Marine for new lines. Could easily be $200.


I have a little electric pressure washer. It made quick work of that grey color and returned the lines to white. However, I have since still gone ahead and replaced all the line except the one on the centerboard uphaul/downhaul.

95% isopropyl alcohol did a good job cleaning the oily residue off the jib window.


Nice! I will have to remember that when it comes time for mine to have a cleaning.

Why are such large lines used for the jib?


I have used 1/4" line everywhere on the boat except the mainsheet, which is 3/8". I used even smaller lines on the topping lift (4mm) and boom vang (6mm) dynema.

The DS II manual shows keeper rings instead of cotter pins so that should work.


Yes, and they are less likely to tear fabric and skin.

Is there any method of securing the shrouds to the spreader ends that affords easier set-up and tear-down than the wire and electrical tape method shown in the manual?


I grabbed a pair of spreader boots from D&R Marine. Then ran a little piece of wire through the holes at the end of the spreader and loosely wrapped it around the shrouds. The idea here is to keep the shroud from getting out of the slot at the end of the spreader, but not keep the shroud held captive. When the mast gets setup or taken down the shrouds need to slide through the end of the spreader.... Also, shrouds will slide when you change tack and the mast bends. It is important to make sure that the boot does not impede movement of the shroud through the end of the speaker as well. Guess how I know? I broke a spreader while raising the mast, because the boot was too tight.

I dislike the idea of freeway driving with SS cables and hardware strapped to the mast with Velcro or other straps - I'd rather be able to pull them off for the road.


You probably will want to find a way that you are comfortable with for storing these while still attached to the mast. You will end up tuning the mast for the sails and rig tension. If you disconnect the shrouds after each sail, you may find yourself continuously having to tune the rig.
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby talbot » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:38 pm

--To reduce stress, just get a spare drain plug. If you can't match the one that is in the boat, just replace the housing as well. Not a high price item.
--Most of us have replaced our DePersia bailers with newer plastic ones. But if it works, don't worry about it. The boat won't sink, even if the whole bailer were removed (unless there is serious hull damage you can't see). You can replace the ball inside with plastic bearing balls.
--Current trend is to replace the bow eye using a deck plate. That's because the job is excruciatingly awkward from inside. But the inside job does not affect the external appearance of the boat, and is one less thing to worry about leaking on deck. I went in from the inside, using an 8" screw-in inspection port to close the hole.
--I don't know about retrieving the boat with just the bow cleats. I suspect it would work, but my experience is that O'Day did not put any extra effort into reinforcing their cleats (and chocks, and tracks). But most of my repair experience is with a '73, when they had a single unreinforced deck cleat at the bow. Later they went to those massive Wilcox-Crittenden cleats port and starboard. They look like you could tow a truck with them, but I guess it depends on what's under the fiberglass.
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:01 pm

Fenders.

I like to use a single large fender tied to / near the chain plates, and then "balance" the boat around it with lines from stern and bow cleat. (This is for docking a few hours at a time).

I like to use one of those L-shaped fenders for the stern (as a safety, in case the boat swings too far). L-shaped, so it protects in cases where the stern can swing under an overhanging dock.

Some docks are just at the wrong height. One I visit regularly, I tie a third line amidships to a piling opposite the dock, to pull the boat away. Don't really need fenders in that setup.
874

I have two very small fenders (4-6") tied to the thwarts. I use them when I need more than a rubrail and the dock is level with the boat (or has a wall). But I like the 8"-10" L-shaped fenders even better for that purpose, but they are too big to hide underneath the thwarts. I tend to use the small fenders first, because they are always ready, and while setting up bigger/better ones.

Over time, I've never regretted having a fender that is too big, only the reverse.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby TIM WEBB » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:37 pm

talbot wrote:--I don't know about retrieving the boat with just the bow cleats. I suspect it would work, but my experience is that O'Day did not put any extra effort into reinforcing their cleats (and chocks, and tracks). But most of my repair experience is with a '73, when they had a single unreinforced deck cleat at the bow. Later they went to those massive Wilcox-Crittenden cleats port and starboard. They look like you could tow a truck with them, but I guess it depends on what's under the fiberglass.

Here's what's under TRW's bow cleats ('79 DS2):
1998
I would have felt comfortable using them in lieu of a bow eye, but the trailer was such that it would have been difficult to do, so I replaced the bow eye.
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby talbot » Tue Jul 05, 2016 8:50 pm

One other thing. Get the stainless U-bolt bow eye. Not one of those single-shaft thingies. The u-bolt is much more stable.
I like the Seadog model that has nuts both inside and outside the hull. If there is any give in the wood reinforcing timber inside, you can tighten the U-bolt from the outside without having to crawl through the cabin. (But you still need to figure out if the timber is rotting, so you will need to get into that forward floatation compartment sooner or later.)
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Re: New 41 year old Daysailer II

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:09 am

If you ever need a strong point (e.g. for towing) then use the mast / mast step where it enters the cuddy.

Although, as I had occasion to try today, being towed at almost hull speed, the single foredeck cleat on my DS1 proved strong enough.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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