Basic Painting Questions

[marcusg]

Also - is oiling even an option for the coamings? Would that not rub off on clothing etc? Or does it eventually soak in enough not to? And what oil? Linseed?

[tomodda]

I live Penofin, but up to you re: oil. Let it dry a day before sitting on it. Same for coamings. Did you cut your coamings down to same height as side decks? It's legal, so no reason not to, IMHO.

Tom

[marcusg]

Ok - so I'll get an actual ScrewOut set and try harder to remove the footboards. Would be nice to have it preserved really well with the CC +WPU if I can afford it + get to all sides. With the oil/stain, does that also need to be on all sides, or just the outside?

Went shopping last night online looking for all the stuff left that I need. I'm unclear how much PVA mold release I need for the floor of the boat - a gallon? A quart? And I'm guessing these (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CW ... 0DER&psc=1) are what you're talking about to spray it with? Did you have to do multiple coats of the PVA for your floor gelcoat?

[tomodda]

I've had zero luck with using screw extractors.. may just be me. If I had to do it all over again, I think I'd just go with a plug cutter, cut around the screws then plug'em. Up to you of course.

Why are you gelcoating the bilges (floor)? Are they down to bare fiberglass? I saw GL's suggestion re: maybe trying to rebuild with PVA mold release, not really understanding. Epoxy with filler should be fine. Anyway, all the best with the project!

[GreenLake]

"oil" doesn't necessarily mean something that stays liquid. The kind of oil product that I am thinking of would harden and therefore shouldn't be a problem. However, I've not researched that option in detail, and no actual experience. That said, the advantage of oiling is that it doesn't form a layer on top of the wood, which means it doesn't get rubbed off as easily as varnish for example, from critical places like the edges of the coamings.

Now, on using gelcoat. I see the main advantage as twofold. It is guaranteed to survive standing water - some topside paints have limits as low as 72h for immersion. The other advantage is that it will stand up better to being walked on than most paints. And it restores a seal over the laminate in places where the original bilge covering has worked through (btw. I don't think my bilge ever had gelcoat applied at the factory -- as it's usually applied as the first layer in a mold, and the inside of the cockpit represents what would be the top layer in the layup).

Mine seems to have come out well; I'm fine with it being a bit rough textured (from the not quite smooth texture underneath and from the application itself). To me, it still represents an improvement to the rather mottled appearance the cockpit floor had before with various layers of paint having worn through unevenly.

I'll have to wait until next season to be really sure that it continues to perform well, so this impression is preliminary.

[marcusg]

So I'm most of the way through the transom repair. Upon using the GelMagic I realized it got squeezed out a lot, so on the "messy side" I just completely ripped the flap of gel coat off along with the remaining layer of plywood that had started ripping off, since it would have been too complicated to go behind the gelcoat and use filler for the half that was missing the layer of plywood and then GelMagic the remaining plywood layer to plywood and then GelCoat to plywood, esp with how much GelMagic goops out once clamped.

So once I ripped all that junk off on left side I just spread Rotfix on the clear spread of remaining plywood, and Sculpwooded over that. Looked like a kid's messy playdough job, but once sanded it looked great.

Side to the right of the engine well was more straightforward, and I GelMagic'ed that twice (after first time I saw the thinner portion of it still had a gap so I spread that part open again and spread the Gelmagic better with a popsicle stick.) After that it held very nicely.

For fiberglass, I decided to use the same layering for all the repair spots, folding one layer of CSM and one layer of cloth over the edge of both left, right, and on the ledge of the motor well. This *mostly* worked well, except for a few places where there were air pockets I couldn't get rid of, and some complications that came up because the glass+epoxy didn't want to fold and stay where I put it. I wasn't using transfer sheets or anything, I dunno if that would've helped. Have never used them yet. I also went ahead and covered that big patch of Sculptwood with the same CSM + cloth layer. Came out really well. Today I started building up the top edge of the transom with the 3M High Strength Marine Filler and just need to do one more sanding to get that locked in. I like that it just takes 30 minutes to cure; really fits doing a bunch of work and coming back to it in a reasonable amount of time rather than waiting hours like with epoxy.

Transom as I get ready to glass it

Transombefore.JPG (204.49 KiB) Viewed 539462 times

Transom as I get ready to glass it

Left side Sculptwood after covered with glass

Leftsidecovered.JPG (201.08 KiB) Viewed 539462 times

Left side Sculptwood after covered with glass

Oh! And I got to say, the little cups of Sculptwood and it's hardener look so much like cups of chocolate and vanilla ice cream, it's crazy.

My ScrewOut kit mostly worked well for getting the old "floorboards" out that are underneath my benches covering where the foam is. Foam looks fine there and also forward in the access port on the floor of the cuddy bin. I pulled the trigger on getting the Clearcoat and LPU from System3, but now I'm wondering if I'm forcing a swanky vision on my boat that doesn't really fit: the "footboards" are just 1/4" plywood, as is most other wood other than my coamings, which are themselves not that pretty of wood either...I did some research about if I could get some nicer looking plywood, but it seems it just comes in grades that have to do with imperfections? And I'm assuming that they don't really sell nice 1/4" thick pine boards? I guess I could go up to 1/2", or I could even get some kind of veneer that I could glue to the footboards (and the coamings for that matter.) I don't know. But the money is spent already so I guess I'll just stick with the raw-wood plan. I'm planning to stain them darker anyways so I guess it won't be as obvious that it's cheapo plywood!

Feeling like I'm really getting some speed under me now, with built up knowledge around glass repairs, fairing, etc. Found another place where an edge is delaminating at the edge where the bilge steps up into the cuddy "shelf" all the way forward. Plan to possibly do a similar Gelmagic repair to that tomorrow. Unfortunately, the weather is going to change in like one or two days, and I haven't secured access to a shared garage yet (discussions are ongoing,) so sadly I might have to switch to non-temperature sensitive epoxy/gelcoat/clearcoat/PU repairs for the next 7 months.

[jalmeida51]

A easy way to remove tight screws is to put valve lapping compound on the head of the screws this will prevent the head of the screw from rounding out. Break the screw loose by using a speed handle or large screw driver, don't try to break them loose with a battery powered drill.

[GreenLake]

There's alwats ColdCure from SystemThree. Supposedly cures to 35F. I've used it, but not at the extreme end of the range. Other makers may have "fast" hardeners that similarly extend the temperature range.

[marcusg]

Thanks for the ColdCure tip. I could maybe use that for doing the fillets/glass-tape on the seat footboards and also for finishing up repairs elsewhere in the boat. Looks like I have garage use for at least a week now, so I'll probably squeeze in the Gelcoating for the floor in that time. I'd wanted to finish treating the footboards first, but this way will work too and make use of the garage while I have it.

I think I can't justify spending ~$200 on all the stuff to keep my iffy wood looking like wood (stain+clearcoat+WP-LPU) so I think I'll either just stain the boards (and re-oil every year) or paint them. I'd prefer to stain for looks, but I wonder how I would re-oil the footboards if those are going to be filleted and glass-taped in on the top and bottom? Wouldn't I have to take them out then every time I re-oil/stain them?

[marcusg]

Did some forum digging about the reliability of oil on the wood and wasn't impressed with people's experiences. I think I'll just put in my order of EZ-Poxy a bit early so I can do the coamings and footboards and save some $ from all the WPU/CC stuff. Greenlake - in your experience is it necessary to use Pettit's primer to do the EZ-Poxy? And I read their prep for wood (which is a bit elaborate,) but do you have experience using it on wood and what that really entails?

[GreenLake]

Sorry no experience with EasyPoxy on wood. I've applied it to a transom (painted gelcoat) w/o primer and it stuck like crazy. I did purchase their primer for some other project, but never got around to it this year.

About wood: unlike fiberglass, wood expands/contracts with moisture. That can promote cracking. That's why it's such a game changer if you can seal your wood in epoxy (on all six sides). It stops the moisture cycling and it will put lots less stress on whatever coating you put on top. However, it requires the top coat to filter UV. Now a coat of paint would do that.

Anyplace that you can expect paint to survive, if you do coat the wood, you ensure that the whole job will last that much longer. I write survive, because there are some uses where you expect paint to get damaged, and then you would need to do touch-ups so you don't get UV damage. If something is abused so much that you can expect epoxy to be scratched, then you have the problem of making sure all those get fixed before water gets in, because it won't come out of sealed wood very easily.

However, people still use this on the outside bottom of wooden boats - but then they embed one layer of glass cloth as a scratch protector. I found System Three's WR-LPU tough enough to stand up to the wear on thwarts and coamings. I haven't tested EasyPoxy in those places, but I have painted a silverware drawer with it and it stood up that abuse quite well. That one went on some laminated stuff (where the laminate had gotten nicks over time - the same nicks did not show up with the EasyPoxy). So it wasn't bare wood.

So, I wouldn't recommend you skip sealing the wood - but you could skip the stain and wouldn't be dependent on getting that natural look come out even in aged wood.

[marcusg]

Yeah, I'm guessing that's why Pettit says to use their EZ-Wood Sealer product before painting with EZ-Poxy. I assume it accomplishes something similar to clearcoat.

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/p ... 9UQAvD_BwE

[GreenLake]

A wood sealer will limit the penetration of a paint (or its solvents) into the wood. It does not limit water vapor - only epoxy does that. So while a wood sealer will help make the wood a better surface for applying the paint, so it comes out more uniform, it does not stop the moisture cycling of the wood - which leads to expansion and contraction that can weaken the paint layer (or lead to cracking). Only epoxy does that. Because it stops water vapor, you need to epoxy seal all six sides of every piece of wood, otherwise water will get in and never be able to dry.

[marcusg]

Hrm, ok. So if I clearcoat the coamings/footboards, can I then skip the woodsealing step? Doing clearcoating, woodsealing, priming, AND painting seems like overkill.

[GreenLake]

Epoxy coated wood may or may not need a primer. Discuss with a rep from the paint's manufacturer whether you can paint directly on epoxy. My expectation would be yes, but all paints are different. But you certainly don't need to prep the wood before putting epoxy on, nor add any wood-sealer onto any surface other than bare wood. The two are mutually exclusive.