Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

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Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby Rush » Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:37 am

Hello, I’m a proud new owner of a 1982 Spindrift DS1. Currently cleaning it up, having a wonderful neighbor help me with an internal CB repair, and ordering missing hardware (tabernacle pins, sail battens, and spreaders) and fresh line.

The Question: The DS came with motor mounting brackets (picture) installed at the outboard transom well location. Is there a benefit to using the mounts? My only guess as to the purpose would be to move the motor aft to keep clear of the traveler, rudder and the like. Seems like the weight and torque is going to be applied to the transom either way, brackets or not. Or maybe a larger motor won’t swing properly in the limited space so those set it back to give clearance?

I’d prefer to transom mount for the sake of simplicity if it’s all the same...
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Motor brackets - transom
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Re: Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby GreenLake » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:03 pm

The more weight you put further aft, the worse your DS will be sailing: when the transom is submerged more, the DS definitely gets slower.

I actually did measurements on this using an electric motor (lightweight) which drove the DS at around 3.1 knots. By shifting the fore-aft balance I could get that speed to 3.5 knots. That was me sitting on the foredeck -- not something you'd do routinely, but imagine the lever arm for a heavy motor on a bracket at the transom.

Which is also one of the reasons why I and several others here opt for electric propulsion, despite the compromises in speed and range: we don't like the compromises in sailing performance. (Some sailing areas and types of sailing, such as expeditions style cruises, may require a different set of compromises).

Digression: I've recently upgraded from a trolling motor to the EP-Carry despite it being a bit pricey - even with battery it's lighter than the trolling motor by itself and everything fits in the motor well. It's also quite well thought out, and convenient in use - in particular, shifting from stored to deployed configuration can be done without leaning over the back and the long control arm means it can be operated from normal seating position.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby Rush » Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:43 pm

I can see how having the motor further back would push the transom lower and create drag, which makes me scratch my head about why the bracket was added. I’ll leave it on until I can check the fit of the motor/engine, but will likely take it off unless I can find a good reason not to. I have a trolling motor and battery I used with a canoe that I’m going to try first, but I am concerned about range. I am a novice and being able to self-rescue would be nice. At least some of the time there will be three of us aboard so I have doubts the trolling motor managing that. And the most accessible water for us will be Perdido Bay (Alabama/Florida border) with tides to consider. A tow is likely to be available but a bit...embarrassing...

Thank you for the help.
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Re: Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby jalmeida51 » Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:29 pm

I use a Yamaha 2 1/2 H.P. long shaft attached to the motor well on my 1981 DS1 built by Rebel. I always carry extra fuel in jug. It has a internal gas tank. I have no problem with the rudder making contact with the motor but I have to make sure the tiller of the outboard is pushed back so I don't catch the traveler on the tiller. It has forward neutral but no reverse. You have to rotate it 180 degrees for reverse. It weights 44 lbs. I have never had it more than 1/2 throttle never had to. It is 3 years old and no trouble. The 2 1/2 has all the power I need to fight the sloppy harbor when the tide is bucking the the wind. John
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Re: Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:40 am

I sail both lakes and tidal waters, and yes, a trolling motor works about the same whether you are one or three people on board. I've used a 40# one for quite a number of years and recently upgraded to an EP-Carry (see reviews elsewhere on this forum). My view on having a motor is that I explicitly don't plan on "self-rescuing". That is, as long as there's wind, I plan to sail my way out of situations, instead of thinking of a motor as some "beam me out of here" device. Having made that decision, I'm suddenly much more realistic about conditions I might attempt sail in, and careful to check forecasts to make sure conditions stay manageable. (I started with zero training and zero experience in sailing something the size of a DS, so it's not that I would have been able to count on superior knowledge or skills, at least not in the early days).

Now, I will plan on using the motor if there's a chance I'll hit a calm spot, and to navigate some stretches under bridges etc. where sailing isn't an option. In may case, the range required for the latter is < 1nm.

Now, I have been on a DS in an expedition style event over a couple hundred miles. We carried a propane outboard to be able to cover extended distances in some unspecified emergency. Turns out, we used it three times in a week. To leave the marina on the first day, to approach the dock the same evening (although I would have been more comfortable sailing up to it, frankly, and the third time, it refused to start. Having a stash of the propane cartridges was nice for morning coffee, though.

That last time, we ended up using a long rope to haul the boat around to a different location and then I sailed us out of the marina.

Incidentally, I had a tough time adjusting to the kind of motor where you have to turn it 180 degrees to get reverse. So used to having reverse power on the trolling motor. That's why I would have done better just sailing up to that dock.

Lesson for me: practice boat handling, how to do a U-turn in a small space, how to short-tack, how to not stall your foils, and how to gauge the stopping distance after you head into the wind. After that, you'll need the motor only where regulations or traffic get in the way.

However, while I continue to be happy with my choice, I readily concede that it's a matter of location, circumstances, and conditions. I can count on protected to semi-protected areas where some shore or island can be reached quickly if necessary (and across, rather than against the tide, if that matters). If I know an area will be becalmed for some time, but not all day, I'm content to take a nap, waiting for the wind to return. That's not everybody's thing.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby Rush » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:32 am

All this information is reassuring and very helpful. I tend to be overcautious, especially when it comes to being on the water. I’ll give the trolling motor a try - there seems to be a shortage of outboards these days anyway so I may have no choice...

I was on a boat (pontoon) in my teens in a situation where it seemed every rule was broken and it got quite dangerous. Watching a fireworks display at a lake (Lake Martin in Alabama), so at night. Hundreds of boats, much drinking (fortunately not my uncle who was piloting our boat), some rather sizable and powerful boats. Fireworks ended and every boat turned for home at the same time and hit full throttle (to be first I guess?). 3-4+ foot swells (wake) in a normally becalmed lake. Amazing no one was swamped because there were some pretty small craft out. I wanted my uncle to head for shore and beach for 20 minutes to let the foolishness dispel but I wasn’t in charge. And then it started raining and the fun really began...

Long story but just to say I am very mindful of the conditions and how quickly they can change, especially with open water very close. Not that I intend to take the DS out on the Gulf of Mexico, but we would like to beach on an island near the pass and have a picnic. It’s pretty nice that my drive to work every day takes me across Perdido (“Danger”) Bay, where we’ll sail most, so I get to watch it over time. Amazing how much it varies with the weather, wind, tide. It looked at one point like cloud cover was making a difference.

Nevertheless my goal is sail not powerboat, so I’ll try to trust the wind but want to do so safely and have fun with it. Learning to take a nap, sunbathe, or picnic when the wind dies down would be a start...
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Re: Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:26 pm

Hah! Your description reminds me of a day I was caught out on a lake with just that kind of powerboat "stampede". The wakes were unbelievable, but the DS handled them fine - despite the fact that the wind was a bit lacking. With a bit more wind we could have sailed that more actively.

When you can observe a sailing area without being on the water you can learn local patterns. On one of my favorite bays, the wind often dies in the middle of the afternoon, only to build later. So if I sail out there, I expect that, and can spend some time bird watching or napping, knowing the wind will be there to sail home.

Perdido Bay, on the charts (https://charts.noaa.gov/OnLineViewer/11378.shtml) looks like a nice sailing area. Also shallow enough that you could anchor most places.

Once you've been out there, why don't you post about it some more in the "cruising" area of the forum. What you like, don't like, what to look out for etc.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby Rush » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:43 pm

Stampede is the perfect word for it! I cannot imagine being in a Daysailer for that...

I’ll definitely put some thoughts up on the boards when I get out there. The bay is shallow, more so because recent hurricanes drove sand around and filled in some. Definitely lots of opportunity to anchor and throw a line in the water. Once I get a little sorted out the Intercostal is there to cruise...

Got the spreaders from D&R installed today. My neighbor has about finished the CB repair. Once I can replace the missing eye strap for the jib halyard and replace halyards, sheets and the traveler line I think I can do an inaugural outing.
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Re: Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jul 25, 2020 7:53 pm

The DS is a pretty capable boat. I've seen it rise up and over waves that I thought would swamp it for sure. On notable one was a wake from a container ship. (We were well outside the shipping lane, but it came rolling in at what looked like 6' (but probably was much less). Not enough wind to turn to meet it head on, but it rolled under the stern, no problem. I've taken a bit of water in the motor well from confused wakes in a narrow channel on several occasions, but it seems those were all hitting diagonally. Just keep her upright and you'll do fine.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Transom v. Bracket Motor Mounting?

Postby Rush » Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:17 am

Nice to know it’s that stable. I feel fortunate to have found a solid sailboat that is straightforward to sail and capable as you say.
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