Any reason to avoid using a V cleat on the mast for halyard?

[zeroready]

All of my halyards are cleated on the mast to horn cleats. I'm going to replace them as they are old and brittle. I have some nice v cleats with the fairlead I was going to use for something else and I was wondering if they would be safe to use for halyards? Should I just stick with horn cleats?

[tomodda]

Reason #1 Not To: Good luck unjamming the halyard from the V when it's under tension.

Reason #2 NT: Wear, eventually your halyard will fray at the V. After all, the rope will always be "cleated" at more or less the same place. Jammed into an open set of scissor blades. Not good.

Reason#3 NT: I'll assume you use a halyard rope with a core and a cover (most are like that - double braid line, etc). Then the cover will engage in the V, but the core will be free to "Creep." It will still jam into to some extent, but not securely. At the very least, you'll have unwanted stretch.

Overall, don't forget that your halyard come under a lot of strain. They are holding the force of the wind against your sails. You don't want them in a V-cleat. Or in anything BUT a horn cleat, IMHO.

[zeroready]

Got it thanks a bunch, I'll stick with the horns then!

[GreenLake]

Tom makes a number of good points. Bigger boats routinely use rope clutches for halyards. They do a better job than V cleats, but you may still want to swap your halyards end-for-end once during their life-span. (Also not sure whether you could get any for the smaller diameter halyards).

Now, I also have a (slightly) smaller sail boat that was rigged to use cam cleats for the halyard (and that halyard is a minuscule 4mm, if not less, in a cover/core design using Dyneema). Loads can't be anything much less than for a DS (perhaps 30% less at most). So that could be a workable alternative.

Horn cleats are secure, but you can't easily adjust them. For the Jib, I've rigged a halyard tensioner that works after the halyard is cleated, so I'm not dependent on getting the tension right as I cleat the halyard on the horn cleat.

For the main, I raise the sail with the boom loose, so it can rise, cleat the main, then pull down the boom and cleat the line to the gooseneck on its own horn cleat. With that setup, I could use a V cleat on the line from the gooseneck, because (1) I can unload it, by releasing the halyard, (2) it's a cheap, short bit of line and could be replaced easily and often. For now, I'm content with using the horn cleat that's there.

Hope this completes the picture a bit.

[zeroready]

Yep that all makes sense thanks! Just a question about the jib tensioner. So when I raise the jib I (or my wife) always just raise it all the way til it won't go anymore due to the tack attached to the stem head. How does your tensioner work, if you don't mind quickly explaining?
I can't tension my jib any more than it is already. I'm also now curious about not hoisting the jib quite all the way up in very lights wind to make the sail fuller, is that a valid technique? Also what about the main on that note? Again we always hoist all the way up and use the downhaul to adjust shape, pulling tight in high winds and leaving it loose in light winds. Could I not hoist the mail all the way up, like just a couple inches shy, to make it fuller as well?

[GreenLake]

If you pull your jib up until the luff is stretched taut, that is the first step. If, at that point, the head of the jib does not yet touch the jib block at the mast, you can, in principle, stretch the jib further, by increasing the tension on the halyard. (If the head, or the knot/shackle attaching it to the halyard, touches the block then your jib is too large).

If you sail in winds 8-10 knots and above you will begin to notice slight scalloping of the luff of the jib. The more tension you were able to put on the jib halyard, the later these scallops develop. My jib tensioner is a small block with a hook that hooks into a Prusik knot that grabs the jib halyard and adds tension. Because the hook has a block on in, it acts as a 2:1 purchase, which is largely sufficient. I cleat it off on deck. With it, I can add enough tension to pull out the scallops. My jib has a wire luff that is able to take over from the forestay: as I tension the halyard, the stay itself goes slack and becomes redundant.



My horn cleat in the jib halyard is very slippery. It's impossible to really tension the jib as belaying seems to always result in a small slip. So, I start my tensioner at minimal tension, effectively. You are correct, in light winds, you don't want to add much tension to the luff, even without allowing big scallops to form. You want a little bit of overall "sag" in the forestay or luff.

(One future mod will be to move the base of this closer to the mast - the separation of the halyard from the mast is not ideal).

For the main, I tend to adjust the luff tension mainly through the Cunningham (off in light winds). I haven't felt like giving additional slack on the halyard, but maybe I am overtensioning the luff just by the basic setup? I seem to do fine in light airs with what I'm doing (lots of those around, so easy to practice).

Maybe somebody else has some thoughts?