Reefing

Moderator: GreenLake

Reefing

Postby Interim » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:29 am

I have a question about reefing (haven't had this option before).

I see four cringles: One on the luff, one near the leech, and two in between. I assume I run a line through the two in the middle and tie tightly around the boom.

Do I tie the cringle on the leech to my outhaul? Or do I lash it around the boom? And the one by the luff, do I attach that to the gooseneck on the boom, or lash that around the boom too?

Thanks.

--john
1979 DSII
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Re: Reefing

Postby kokko » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:24 pm

Not quite. THe two middle cringles and used separately from the reefing lines and just tidy up the reefed sail. They should not be put under load. Only the cringles at the luff and leach are used to reef the sail.
On Truelove I have a 2' section of line passing though the middle cringles. THey are knotted on either side of the cringle to secure it. When I reef, these lines just hold the middle portion of the sil to the boom.

I retroffitted Truelove a bit to make reefing simpler. At the forward, port side of the boom I added an eyestrap. A line is tied to the eyestrap, passes though the luff cringle, down to a cheek block on the straboard side of the boom, and aft to a cleat. On thee aft part of the boom I have the same arrangement - eyestrap, through cringle to a chee block, the forward to the same cleat. Once the two reefing lines aare secure, then I tie off the two other lines to secure the sail.
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Re: Reefing

Postby kokko » Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:25 pm

I also have a clip on my outhaul. WHen I reef, I move the outhaul line to the leech cringle to pull the foot of the sail aft.
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Re: Reefing

Postby Interim » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:07 pm

Sounds like I need to attach some hardware.

So you leave the tack on the gooseneck, and the clew tied to the outhaul.

If you happen to have a picture, I'd like to see the set up.

Thanks for the reply.

--john
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Re: Reefing

Postby kokko » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:41 pm

Since I am away from Truelove, this comes closest.

http://www.chipford.com/reefing.htm

The difference is, I secure my luff reefing line to the boom, and not to the mast as shown. If you secure it to the mast, the boom cannot slide up the mast when you raise sail.
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Re: Reefing

Postby powpowhunter » Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:34 pm

Don't mean to hijack your thread John, but I'm a bit confused on reefing as well, and don't want to resurrect any of the old threads that don't seem to answer my question either.
When reading about using a reefing hook for the luff cringle, it seems as everyone is using slugs instead of a bolt rope, so they just pull the slugs above the gate out as they come down, or just fold the sail over with the slugs in place. I'm in the habit of having the bolt rope in the track below the gate. Is this a bad habit? To reef I have to first disconnect the tack to pull the bolt rope up out of the lower track, then lower the reef cringle down to the hook. (I've only done this once, and it didn't work well, hence this question).
So, should I not have the bolt rope in the mast track below the gate, but just let the tack hold the sail, with the bolt rope out of the lower channel?
-Tyler
1977 DS2 #8389 "Tidenaut"
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Re: Reefing

Postby GreenLake » Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:37 pm

I would tend to think that you do not need to have the boltrope in the part of the mast slot below the gate. On my sail, I'd say, I'm doubtful the sail would even stretch that much. And I have a Cunningham cringle in the sail just above the mast gate. If there's any tension on the Cunningham, the part of the sail below it is essentially off-loaded anyway, so having it in a slot wouldn't even contribute.
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Re: Reefing

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:58 pm

kokko wrote:I also have a clip on my outhaul. WHen I reef, I move the outhaul line to the leech cringle to pull the foot of the sail aft.

If the aft cheek block is positioned correctly, i.e. aft of where the leach reef cringle is when it's at boom level, then the aft reef line effectively takes the outhaul out of the equation. The clip sounds like a great idea, except in the case where you want to reef while hove-to, in which case the boom would be out to the lee side, and the outhaul/clip out of reach ...
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Re: Reefing

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:11 pm

powpowhunter wrote:Don't mean to hijack your thread John, but I'm a bit confused on reefing as well, and don't want to resurrect any of the old threads that don't seem to answer my question either.
When reading about using a reefing hook for the luff cringle, it seems as everyone is using slugs instead of a bolt rope, so they just pull the slugs above the gate out as they come down, or just fold the sail over with the slugs in place. I'm in the habit of having the bolt rope in the track below the gate. Is this a bad habit? To reef I have to first disconnect the tack to pull the bolt rope up out of the lower track, then lower the reef cringle down to the hook. (I've only done this once, and it didn't work well, hence this question).
So, should I not have the bolt rope in the mast track below the gate, but just let the tack hold the sail, with the bolt rope out of the lower channel?

Tyler, having slugs on the main luff make SO many things easier, including reefing, especially if you do a lot of singlehanding and/or long distance cruising ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Reefing

Postby K.C. Walker » Sat Sep 20, 2014 8:17 am

I agree with Green Lake, the bolt rope below the gate is unnecessary in normal use. Also, it would be definitely adding to your time and hassle to reef the sail.

I agree with Tim about the sail slugs and will add that it makes things even easier with a closing mast gate, as both Tim and I use.

Having a reefing set up that's reasonably quick to do means that you will do it instead of fighting the boat in too much wind. I think that reefing is a skill worth practicing out on the water to get it smooth and done quickly, so that if you really need to do it… it won't be an obstacle when you are under stress. Also, reefing just extends your pleasurable sailing wind range.
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Re: Reefing

Postby GreenLake » Sat Sep 20, 2014 3:55 pm

Since we are all in agreement :) , I'll continue by saying I agree with K.C. on the benefits of practice.

This includes heaving to, or whatever you do to get the boat in a position to be able to reef (pressure off the main).
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Re: Reefing

Postby Alan » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:13 am

I've thought about adding slugs, but my boltrope-equipped Intensity mainsail, which stretches about two inches below the bottom of the gate, comes all the way down in three easy pulls. In fact, it almost falls down by itself. My brand-new can of sailtrack lubricant remains unused. The sail slug crew makes a persuasive case, though, I must admit…

If you've got a boltrope, you really, really don’t want it extending down into the slot below the gate more than a tiny bit. The reason? If you need to flake the main, whether for reefing or to lower it all the way, it can't be done without pulling the lower end of the boltrope up until it clears the gate, then shifting the lower end sideways out of the gate and letting it down off to the side. I've tried just pulling and folding the boltrope sideways out of the gate, with the lower end still down there in the slot. It can't be done. It jams, hopelessly and permanently, while that old saying about how the sea does not forgive errors runs through one's rookie mind.

Pulling up the lower end of the boltrope to clear the gate is more tricky than it sounds. You've got to release the boom downhaul from the cleat and loosen the mainsheet so the boom can be lifted, grab the forward end of the boom and give it a lift, pull the boltrope up and move its lower end sideways, let the boom back down, somehow simultaneously tighten the mainsheet before the boom can sneak up behind you and thump you in the butt, causing your crew to a) snicker or b) panic, tighten the downhaul, and then, and only then, can you fold the sail.
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Re: Reefing

Postby GreenLake » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:07 am

Alan, just to give you some comfort here, I also do not see any reason to even think about sail slugs. The vast majority of the time my main comes down it comes off the mast altogether. Letting it drop into the cockpit and rolling it later causes no problems that need improvement (it helps that the launches I use tend to blanket the breeze, so that dropping the sail into the boat doesn't mean it will blow overboard).

For reefing, the lack of sail slugs makes no real difference for this size sail (my sailmaker even told me that he thinks the reef ties to be superfluous - I agree that stretching the sail and tightening the reef lines will tend to hold tack and clew end in place and the fabric in the middle appears to be well behaved enough, if not super neat).

So the only time I would see a difference is when I take the main down on the water. Tying up temporarily at a dock for a visit to a town, a restaurant, or a friend's dockside party are regular, but not particularly frequent occurrences, same with anchoring. If I did any of these every time I went on the water, perhaps the ability to flake the sail more positively would be more critical. As it stands, I can live without it

Because I raise the mast nearly every time I set sail, I would have to feed the slugs one by one. That's bound to offset any possible gains.

So, as often with boats, each system presents a different set of compromises and none is superior in all conditions.
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Re: Reefing

Postby powpowhunter » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:26 am

Thanks for all of the great comments. I had a chance to put all of this to practice over the weekend, and things went quite smoothly. I left the boltrope out of the lower slot and was able to reef quite neatly (while at anchor in a fairly calm bay after a lunch break), instead of fighting the fight that Alan described quite nicely. Leaving the boltrope free on the bottom seemed to make no difference what so ever in how the sail held shape either. I appreciate all the help I've gotten from the community here.
-Tyler
1977 DS2 #8389 "Tidenaut"
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Re: Reefing

Postby Interim » Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:43 pm

No worries about hijacking the thread. No such thing, in my mind.

I have a new sail that has a boltrope, so the discussion helped me. In fact, this new bolt rope is about 5/8 of the old one, and found its way out of the slot a couple times during hoisting. Winds were 14mph, and it never looked like it would pull out, so I guess it will work. But this may explain in part why they come down so easily.

I'm not going to add the reefing hardware till winter, so only light winds for me till then.

--john
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