Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

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Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby fatjackdurham » Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:47 am

I have been reading a few posts about rigging for solo sailing and I have a question about halyards. My whole life, I have only ever sailed boats that had cleats on the mast for the halyards. These were all mostly boats length 22' or less.

If you are going to rig your halyards to be reachable from the cockpit to make reefing easier, I assume you have to put halyard lead blocks on the deck at the base of the mast, then run the line to some kind of cam cleat or other device on the cuddy deck, correct?

Is their anything else that needs to be done to the mast for this? Does tensioning to the deck alter the forces on the mast in any way? Does a mast with a tabernacle hinge affect the ability to do this? Should I put a backing plate under the cuddy deck to spread the load out on the fiberglass?

One of my goals getting the Daysailer is to practice rigging and sailing solo as I would on a larger boat: topping lift, fairleads, etc. But, I don't want to risk damaging the boat doing this.
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby GreenLake » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:12 pm

I have sailed my DS solo plenty of times and did not see the need to move the halyards off the mast.

I use a bungee arrangement to keep my tiller in position when I cannot hold on to it and so far that's all I've needed for "solo" sailing modification.

Oh, I do have a reefline; I would normally "heave to" to put in or shake out a reef. My reefline is cleated on the boom near the gooseneck and it is operated standing next to the mast where I would be standing to drop the halyard.

I do not use a topping lift or a jib downhaul. My latest jib is so stiff, though, that it might get to the point where the added hassle from rigging yet another line will be outweighed by the benefit of getting (keeping) the jib down more positively. I'll keep an open mind, but so far, I don't see the urgency.

In your case, I'd give the general advice I'd give anyone who shows up with a new DS here: sail the boat for a while before making sweeping adjustments.
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby tmittner » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:18 am

Sage advice from Greenlake. I made major improvements that I am modifying because they did not suit my kind of sailing (recreation, destination, camp cruising with my 8 year old granddaughter). I've gone from mid boom sheeting to rear boom (18 inches from the stern to clear motor) back to mid boom. Bridle and lines at the rear were in the way of her swim ladder, and an annoyance when I operate the auxiliary outboard clamped on the stern. For me the increased performance close hauled did not out weigh the increased hassle of the extra lines. I have a 3:1 jib halyard tensioner, down from a 4:1 (afraid of trainees over tensioning the jib luff, myself included). Oh yeah, went from a 24:1 boom vang to a 12:1. Plenty adequate for my kind of sailing and only 1/2 as hard on the rig. I like to sail in the boat or sitting on the rail, rather than, dread, hiking. The performance guys are just rolling their eyes at me now, but i have found in higher winds, putting up my heavy air jib and/or throwing in a reef or two, to bring the boat under comfortable control, preferable. Not that hiking isn't great exercise, it just wears me out on long sails. The point is, if I had sailed my boat more before making improvements based on theory, I would have saved time and money. 8)
Tom
DSII #8483 Old Fox
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby geofisherman » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:56 pm

I added a pair of pivoting cam cleats to my mast based in place of the horn cleats.

http://www.apsltd.com/40mm-carbo-pivot- ... gK9jPD_BwE

These, slugs for the mainsail, and a bungee for the tiller make single-handed sail handling much easier.
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby fatjackdurham » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:55 pm

geofisherman wrote:I added a pair of pivoting cam cleats to my mast based in place of the horn cleats.

http://www.apsltd.com/40mm-carbo-pivot- ... gK9jPD_BwE

These, slugs for the mainsail, and a bungee for the tiller make single-handed sail handling much easier.


Interesting! So, you trust your halyards just to the cam cleats? I see they are weight rated to 300 lbs, which I guess is plenty.
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby GreenLake » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:40 pm

I have seen halyards pop out of cam cleats with potentially serious consequences. The cleat location should be carefully chosen to reduce the chance of a halyard being "popped" unexpectedly.

Keeping the cleat close to the mast is useful in reducing the length of the line under tension (which tends to increase its stretch) and prevents the chance of the cleat moving in relation to the mast under load.

What I like about the cleats linked is that they are well-positioned to be operated when standing at the mast. They'll speed up setting the sail (whether slugs or not) and allow easy adjustment of halyard tension if needed. (I can see them work well for reefing, too).
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby geofisherman » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:17 pm

The cleats are at the base of my mast, and I've never had a halyard pop free. I have had them catch a halyard while lowering the sail. What I also like about them is that I can grab a halyard and tension the luff enough to take some belly out of the sail as the wind picks up.

You can see where they're located in the photo attached.
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby fatjackdurham » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:30 am

Is the one on the front of the mast the jib halyard or the spinnaker. If its the jib, why is it on the front not the side?

What is the other line that goes to the small cleat near the boom? Topping lift?

Did you have slugs added afterwards or buy the sail that way? I just bought a new mainsail, but I think it's a bolt rope only. I kind of would like to have slugs to make it easier...
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby geofisherman » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:49 pm

The cleat showing in front of the mast is the jib halyard. It is mounted on the side of the mast and can swivel from back to front. I use the jib halyard to hold the mast up while pinning the forestay, so it was still facing towards the front of the boat after rigging. The jib was not rigged when I took that photo. While sailing it would face towards the back like the other cleat (main halyard).

The other line is indeed my topping lift.

I bought the mainsail in the photo from a gentleman who decided to make his own suit of sails. It was made for slugs and has two rows of reef points. I have another mainsail from Intensity to which I added slugs along the luff using grommets and snap fittings. I bought these parts from Sailrite. Below are some links. I cannot remember which size snaps I used.

http://www.sailrite.com/Slug-Nylon-Round-1-2
http://www.sailrite.com/Shackle-Snap-In-Plastic-7-8
http://www.sailrite.com/Shackle-Snap-In-Plastic-1-1-8
http://www.sailrite.com/Spur-Grommet-St ... 2-3-8-Hole

FYI: I was happy with my Intensity main and still fly an intensity jib. I bought the second-hand mainsail because it was not much more money than having a second row of reef points added to the intensity sail.
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby fatjackdurham » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:26 pm

Ha ha! The hammer costs $80! Too funny, like a military cost! No doubt an ordinary rubber or leather mallet wouldn't work!

Wow, you did your own grommets and slugs? Nice! I don't have the confidence or attention to detail for that. I bought my mainsail from Intensity, too. I am glad to hear you like yours.

I wonder what it costs to pay a professional to ad slugs versu ordering the tools and grommets. I estimate $200 for the tools including the hammer and twenty-four slugs. How many did you do?
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby GreenLake » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:04 am

That hammer that you saw listed among the "you might also like ..." items seems to be a case of a tool that superbly fits the task. For some it's worth it, others make do.I have strong sympathies for either point of view (and if you remember reading "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" Pirsig has more than a bit to say on that. :) )
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby fatjackdurham » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:41 am

A sailmaker near me says it would cost less that $100 to put in the slugs. I think I'll have it done when my new sail arrives.
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby geofisherman » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:44 pm

I did not need the $80 hammer. But I did use the special grommet setting tool they sell for the stainless grommets. I don't remember how many slugs I used and what I spent on the job, but it was considerably less than $100 even with the grommet setting tool. Sailrite has some good how-to videos on installing slugs including spacing and what not. It really was not hard. I also think there are a couple of threads on this forum about adding slugs.

Also, I should add that I found out about the swivel cleats on this form.
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Re: Rigging halyard for solo sailing question

Postby GreenLake » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:20 am

Little bit of a hijack:

Some like to do their own work, some don't like to do certain kinds of work, but feel more comfortable with other projects.

Read a study somewhere that claimed people derive happiness from offloading task they don't enjoy. Don't know whether that was just the "questionable study of the month" or a real discovery, but assume it is. That would mean you gain most by DIY projects that suit your talents / inclination in addition to whether you can realize any savings.

Myself, I've outsourced sailmaking and have been happy with that choice. I've outsourced one trailer repair and am second-guessing that ever since - I think the way it was done was not appropriate, but I can't be sure. (I think the trailer suspension is now far too stiff, but have no way of evaluating). So, a mixed record.

I've painted the bottom and the results were underwhelming (basically the paint peeled off for unknown reasons). I'm not ready to farm that out, because the expense is prohibitive.
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