Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Moderator: GreenLake

Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby DigitalMechanic » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:01 am

When I upgraded my boom vang to 10:1 about a year ago, I terminated it to a cleat on top of the cuddy roof. That worked great compared to what I previously had (it actually did something). The location was... well... ok. I have found myself wishing it was a little more centrally located for both skipper and crew, but was unsure of how to make that happen considering my limited knowledge of the massive blocks/cams offerings in catalogs that are out there. However, I just finished a little project to accomplish this by now terminating the boom vang on top of the centerboard trunk. Whoo hoo!

This info fell upon me during another campaign in which I was trying to find a boat cover (she now stays on the trailer at the river rigged and ready to splash). It so happens my friend (Paul) that helped me initially rig the boat happens to be friends with Mike Gillum, who happens to be in the canvas business. Thus, with his help putting two and two together, if I was going to spend my money on a boat cover, I was naturally inspired to send it Mike's way, as part of the daysailer family. Thus, emails and pictures were traded, lol. Ultimately we landed in a conversation about this part that allows the boom vang control to come to the center of the boat.

And here is the magic part that makes it doable...

RL 860 Swivel
http://www.racelitehardware.com/rl-860-swivel/

The trick is to be able to feed the line coming across the side of the centerboard trunk and then turn it up and into the vertical barrel that pulls it over a block and into a cleat.

1. To keep things tidy, I put a through block in the cuddy roof. A 1/8 rotozip bit in a cordless drill will make quick work of cutting the little rectangle in the cuddy roof. Just don't rotozip your finger like I did :shock:

2. From there go to a cheek block mounted at a 45 degree angle on the Keelson (part of mast inside cuddy)

3. Drill 1/2" hole in cuddy wall on opposite side of centerboard trunk that the centerboard up and downhaul lines are on. (Plug new hole with nylon bushing to prevent chafe)

4. To another cheek block mounted at 45 degrees under the Racelite RL 860 swivel

5. Turn up into barrel and terminate in cleat

Visual aide below...

2460
2461
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Last edited by DigitalMechanic on Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:27 pm

Slick setup DM!
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:05 am

Thanks Tim! But I stole the idea from Mike :wink:

Sailed twice yesterday, once in 3mph wind, lol. Then the wind picked up around 6:00 to 8mph or so. Did some nice cruising. Tried to keep up with an e scow we were out sailing with... As you might guess, we got dusted, lol. We did not have a course or anything, but since we made it back to the dock first, we told them we won :D But it was nice to have all controls in reach. Had my cousin and his son on the boat. We let the kid take the helm, and we crewed for him! He kept asking me if we were going to tip when the puffs hit, I told him "I got cha, your doing great, just keep us on course" :wink:

It was his first time sailing, but everything was in easy reach to adapt to the helmsman. Fun for everyone! I think he will be back :wink:
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby TIM WEBB » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:56 pm

That's awesome! Any time you can get a kid excited about sailing is a good time in my book ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby Jholer » Sat May 05, 2018 8:29 pm

Hello everyone. I am about to rig up this boom vang setup on my 1973 ds2 and have a quick question. When mounting the racelite swivel and cheek block under it, how long of screws can i get away with into the side of the cb trunk? I.e. about how thick is it before hitting the cb void? I am hoping to use something longer than 1\2" screws. Thanks, nick
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby DigitalMechanic » Mon May 07, 2018 9:09 am

I don't remember exactly how long of screw I used, but I do remember the fiberglass on the top of the trunk being pretty thick (1/2" or so). The sides of the trunk are not so thick. I tried to get the top screws of the swivel into that 1/2" top layer (obviously coming from the side). I put 5200 in the holes as well to help (may be a PITA to service later if need be). I have seen where others have beefed up the fiberglass in that section (on a DS1) to make a mounting spot for the swivel. I think that that may be overkill though. You could probably go with a backing plate and machine screws as another option as well. I just used screws, nothing extra. From what I can feel, by the time the line takes all the wraps it does to get back to the cleat it does not feel like there is that much pressure on the swivel. You can hold the vang on with 2 fingers if you wanted. So far it has held up well.

Are you doing 10:1 or 20:1? What kind of sailing conditions will you be willing to put up with on this boat? At 20+ knots I am probably jumping on a different boat :D
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby Jholer » Tue May 22, 2018 10:30 pm

Thanks for the reply dm! I actually sail quite a bit in 15-20knots. Mountain winds sort of build relentlessly throughout the afternoon. often I'll launch in 2 knots, and try to get back before it hits 20-25 maybe 4 hours later. So the og 3:1 setup wasn't really usable. I'll be going 10:1, anything more and i think id be able to pull the rig apart, as my tabernacle fastening is a little iffy. I think I'll 5200 an extra fiberglass backer to the side and mount everything through that to make it pretty stout. I'm guessing the side of the trunk is at least 1/2 inch. Anything less and i think I'd be able to flex the side in a bit by pushing on it. Glass on a flat plane is pretty flexy, but curvature gives it strength.
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby DigitalMechanic » Tue May 22, 2018 10:56 pm

We get some wind here as well. Outside of summer its a real mix, and weather reports are always pretty unreliable in FL. There are days it says it may be up to 5mph, and we sit at the bar and watch it fill in to 10-15mph (and then jump in a boat). Other days it is 20-30mph, and talk about how brave we are while on dry land, lol. And then other days it says there will be a strong breeze and it never reaches the water surface, and we float around and drink beer while we scratch our heads. Sailing sure is an opportunist sport ;)

On the DSII, the side of the centerboard trunk is thin. If you are mounting the infamous magic swivel vang cleat, I believe the majority of the pressure will be on the top screws. And fortunately the top part of the CB trunk is thick. Try and get the top 2 screws of the swivel cleat's plate in that thick stuff and I think you will be fine. If you are sailing in 15-20mph winds, you sure will appreciate being able to flatten that boat out a bit. Hiking straps won't hurt either (no pun intended). I have been pre-occupied with another restoration project, but hiking straps are up there on my todo list for the ol' DS.
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby Shagbark » Wed May 23, 2018 6:58 pm

Oh man, now I have to lead my vang line aft AND install hiking straps! Staying up the Jones' on these modifications is wearing me down. BTW, was out this past Friday in 15-20 knots (3-4 ft seas) and found it too much to singlehand. jholer, did you have the help of crew to hold the rail down with the 20 knots or do I just need to keep practicing in higher winds?
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby DigitalMechanic » Wed May 23, 2018 8:48 pm

Shagbark wrote:Oh man, now I have to lead my vang line aft AND install hiking straps! Staying up the Jones' on these modifications is wearing me down. BTW, was out this past Friday in 15-20 knots (3-4 ft seas) and found it too much to singlehand. jholer, did you have the help of crew to hold the rail down with the 20 knots or do I just need to keep practicing in higher winds?


If you can't find rail meat, try some hiking straps lol :wink:
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby GreenLake » Thu May 24, 2018 12:02 pm

Shagbark wrote:Oh man, now I have to lead my vang line aft AND install hiking straps! Staying up the Jones' on these modifications is wearing me down. BTW, was out this past Friday in 15-20 knots (3-4 ft seas) and found it too much to singlehand. jholer, did you have the help of crew to hold the rail down with the 20 knots or do I just need to keep practicing in higher winds?

I had my sailmaker put a reef into the main. With that I survive single handing up to around 15 knots (no hiking straps). Don't know if I would have enjoyed 3-4ft seas...
Reef points are not expensive, by the way, and can be retrofitted (unless your sail is too old).

Putting a reef in requires a reef hook and a reef line. The reef line is similar to the outhaul, but instead of pulling the clew straight back it pulls the reef point down (and back - you do want to flatten the "new" foot of the sail). Reef hook sold by D&R Marine.

If you know how to heave to your DS, you can put a reef in single handed while underway. Most days, you'll probably know when to put one in at the dock and the question is only how to take it out should conditions improve.

Crew definitely helps, though.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby Jholer » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:04 am

Well,that centerboard trunk is certainty thin! Probably 1\2" at the top and maybe 1\4" on the sides. I used 5200 and glued on some 1\4" glass as backers before i attached the blocks. Used 5200 on those as well. The cheek under the racelite swivel needs to be shimmed out a ways so the line runs freely through the tube portion of the swivel block anyways, so that shim was mostly what the cheek block is fastened in to. As for hiking straps, i cut mine off when i got the boat, as they were fraying and generally ratty. I have intentions of making new ones but havent gotten around to it yet! I have a reef point in the main, but havent used it yet. In 20 knots, all crew are on the rail, and the boat is kept under control by playing the main sheet aggressively. You can also point a little high for your given sail trim. This will reduce the effectiveness of the sails by luffing the leading edge, therefore keeping the boat on its feet. However I'm not racing, so trimming this way and killing a little potential speed is no big deal.
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:41 pm

@Jholer: good description on how to spill extra wind if you are overpowered a bit.

I recently had some issue with my mainsheet not working properly (see "out of control...") and before I finally tumbled to the cause of why I couldn't seem to flatten my main, I did snug up the vang and that helped quite a bit.

BTW, I'm not sure I concur with your choice of adhesive, unless you happened to have had a tube of 5200 already open. For that kind of application, epoxy would be my preference: while 5200 is both adhesive and sealant, it's tensile strength is about 1/5th to 1/10th of that of epoxy (depending on the type of epoxy). (I also really like that the shelf-life of unmixed epoxy is really long, unlike most sealants that start to harden as soon as you break the seal and leftovers can't be used after a few days. But then there is the need to mix a batch. . ).

Let us know how your new setup is working out for you.
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby DigitalMechanic » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:21 pm

Jholer wrote:Well,that centerboard trunk is certainty thin! Probably 1\2" at the top and maybe 1\4" on the sides.


Sounds like a lot of glass to me :wink:

Jholer wrote:You can also point a little high for your given sail trim.


Sounds to me like you got a "lift". If you were racing you would be loving that. There are times when you get headed as the wind shifts as well (also referred to as a "knock")... and often the wind is shifting as the puff hits.

This starts to become more important of a thing when you are racing, as most of the time you only sail on 2 points of sail when you are going around the buoys. Upwind, as close to the wind as you can... as it points you more directly to the mark, which makes the travel time to the mark shorter. And then there is downwind, as close to dead down wind as you can sail and still make good ground. Upwind is work, downwind is relaxing for all but the spinnaker trimmer, lol.

To simplify things I will just talk about going upwind... Also, this could possibly spawn a few segue conversations about other variables that will be at play in the "what should I do with this wind" scenarios. To keep it extra simple, if we are considering this example a to be a boat in a race, let's say we are way out in front of everyone (which is highly unlikely) and there are no other boats or bad air from said boats to avoid.

So, in my head, this is my checklist for dealing with a wind shift...

Before I trim the sail or put on the vang or anything, I check the tell tails on my head sail to see what they are doing. Remember I am already close hauled, so I cannot bring my sails in anymore than they already are.

If the inside tell tail on the head sail is flapping, I am probably getting headed/knocked, which means the wind shifted in such a way whereas I am closer to irons then I previously was. This means that I am now too close hauled, most likely de-powering, and not making good speed. If I head down (away from the wind), the inside tell tail will stiffen back up and the boat should gain speed. If the boat starts to heel, hike!

If the outside tell tail on the head sail is flapping, I am probably getting lifted, which means that the wind shifted in such a way whereas I am now on a close reach instead of close hauled. I am definitely overpowered, and happy about it (It may be time to hike out if you are not already and have the wind to warrant it). I should now be overpowered and healing excessively (or starting to), and too overpowered to gain speed. This means I get to head up and point the boat into the wind a little. If racing, this allows you to sail closer (in a straighter line) to the mark.

So, if you cannot look at the water and tell if you are about to get lifted or headed, you can check for a lift or header based on what the tail tells are doing, steering the boat until the tell tails are happy. If I am still heeling too much, I can ease the main slightly. Or I can put some vang on. Or if there is enough wind do both, lol.

Again... we have been talking about close hauled racing. But if you are cruising and this resonates with you, you can have even more fun with it. Why? Because now you can sail off the wind a little... in a reach (where ever you want). This make the trim point priority, especially if you are cruising and want to keep a straight course. If you are getting headed, instead of turning the boat downwind to power back up, you can bring the head sail in little to make the inside tell tail stop fluttering, adjust the main, and keep course. Hike if need be, decide if you have enough wind for vang, etc. Work the boat front to back, and then rinse and repeat. Conversely, if you are getting a lift, your outside tell tail will be fluttering, telling you to either head up or easy the sail a little. If cruising, ease the foresail until the the outside tell tail strikes a pose, adjust the main if need be, hike if need be, use the vang if you need it. Rinse and repeat.

When racing there are more variables, and that can be fun. When cruising, the wind is the variable, and you have a lot more time to concentrate solely on it, which is fun. The real difference to the order of operations depends on what you are doing. If racing, your first priority is ussually to steer to the wind shift. If cruising your first priority is usually to start the trimming process when the wind shifts in hopes to keep a straight course.
Last edited by DigitalMechanic on Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Daysailer boom vang led to centerboard trunk

Postby DigitalMechanic » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:54 am

Jholer wrote:In 20 knots, all crew are on the rail, and the boat is kept under control by playing the main sheet aggressively. You can also point a little high for your given sail trim. This will reduce the effectiveness of the sails by luffing the leading edge, therefore keeping the boat on its feet. However I'm not racing, so trimming this way and killing a little potential speed is no big deal.


Now that I read it back again, I see what you were saying. You headed up to de-power and flatten the boat. That will work :D
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