sheet and halyard sizes

Moderator: GreenLake

sheet and halyard sizes

Postby Papajoe » Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:03 pm

I'm sure there is a post that I am missing, but can someone please tell me the best sizes of the sheets and halyards? I am also adding a double block for the main sheet instead of the single that is there and would like to know what size to get. The best I can tell is 39mm. I have found out buy watching YouTube that my main sail is not the right size as well as my jib. Where would recommend to a get sails that arent stupid expensive?
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Re: sheet and halyard sizes

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:23 pm

There are several lengthy discussion on various types of sails and sailmakers over in the "Sails" part of the forum. Have a look.

You're not giving us enough the necessary details to help you with your question on the mainsheet block, so we would have to guess. (Not all DaySailers are rigged the same, far from it).

Do you have center boom sheeting (mainsheet goes up and down to the middle of the boom but not aft to a traveler)?

Because I can't easily picture how you would use a double block with a traveler setup, I'm assuming you have a very minimal center-boom sheeting: up-down-and-up, with a single block on each end?. Correct?

What kind of double block were you going to fit: one with parallel sheaves, or a fiddle block? (I think the advantage of the latter is that the pull is more inline, also, the sheave over which the sheet has to travel a longer distance is larger).

Also, if you are making changes, I would strongly recommend that you incorporate a ratchet block in that setup, if possible.

As for the sheave diameter 39mm is not too big.

Finally, length of sheets. I think it is best to measure that on your boat, and not simply assume that a standard measurement is correct, only to find out it's a few inches short.

Mainsheet: the mainsheet needs to allow the boom to go forward until it touches the shrouds. For center boom sheeting that creates a straight line distance between the boom attachment and the main-sheet swivel. You measure that and multiply by the number of parts in your purchase and add one foot for a tail. If you are using double blocks that should be accurate, if fiddle blocks, it might be slightly generous, but better to trim the last foot than be a foot short.

Jibsheet: the jibsheet needs to allow the clew of the jib to extend from the forestay at 90 degrees and from there, be able to reach to the other(!) side of the boat, through fairleads and cleat and have a bit of a tail for grabbing. The range of variations for jib sheet rigging is a bit less, but cleat location isn't the same on all boats, so rather than getting a "standard" value where you don't know what rigging was assumed, you're better off measuring it.

(I measured my spinnaker sheets, and came out a bit longer than some "standard" recommendations; they ended up being a bit tight - could have used another 6". Lesson learned: buy a bit extra, unless you are replacing an existing line that you can measure precisely).

If you haven't already, I suggest you have a look at the thread "Rope for various lines" where we've been discussing the advantages of various types of rope to use for various sheets.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: sheet and halyard sizes

Postby GreenLake » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:03 pm

Halyard sizes: same thing, it depends where you are cleating them. Mine are cleated on cleats attached to the mast. So, for that scenario, I would measure up to the mast top and down to the boom position plus a foot of tail to belay. That would be the length of the main halyard. Or, if I was buying in bulk, I would just purchase 50' (the total length of the mast is 50', so that would be long enough). Jib halyard needs to be the distance from cleat to jib sheave and then the length of the forestay (plus tail) so that the jib can be lowered all the way to the deck.

If your halyards are cleated on the cuddy top, you need to add some for that.

I did switch my halyards from double braid to AmSteel (Dyneema) because you want really low stretch (otherwise your sails won't stay flat in a gust). The way I did it required splicing in a long tail (double braid), so the part that I would pull on and belay on the cleat wasn't the slippery Amsteel. Because of that, I could get away with using the cheapest (thinnest and somewhat stretchy) double braid: the tail is never under tension.

However, there are some ropes out there that are light and thin, and super non-stretch and have a cover that is grippy. That way you can avoid splicing and still have the benefit of using very light line and no-stretch. One of my boats, only a foot shorter than a DS, has a halyard that's 3mm FSE Robline's "Dinghy Control". You could get that or something equivalent, perhaps slightly beefier for easy grip, at 4mm.
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Re: sheet and halyard sizes

Postby Papajoe » Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:42 pm

Thank you GreenLake. I am very new to this and trying to read and watch everything I can. I should explained better. By halyard size. I meant diameter. the guy I got the boat from had it rigged. By rigged, I mean he had halyards that looks to be 3/8 $12 Harbor Freight stuff. It stretched bad and the core is broken in many places. I am not rigged for a traveler. From what I can tell is that I need to learn the basics of sailing before I add more. The guy also has a single block on the boom that is wired to a cleat with bailing wire. So I ordered the piece to attach to the boom that holds the block from D & R. So I figured a double block would make pulling the main sheet easier. I asked about sail size because I have noticed on YouTube the videos show their masts are higher over the cockpit than mine. Mine is very low and hard to even get under when tacking. plus I need to pull it down ever farther because I am spilling to much air out of the top of the sail. The is much much faster when I grab the boom by hand and pull it lower. What are the advantages or disadvantages to the ratcheting block that you suggest? Is it more work to release the ratcheting?
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Re: sheet and halyard sizes

Postby GreenLake » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:22 pm

Papajoe wrote:Thank you GreenLake. I am very new to this and trying to read and watch everything I can. I should explained better. By halyard size. I meant diameter. the guy I got the boat from had it rigged. By rigged, I mean he had halyards that looks to be 3/8 $12 Harbor Freight stuff. It stretched bad and the core is broken in many places.

For discussion of diameters and type of rope suitable to halyards see the thread "Rope for various lines", please, that way I don't have to repeat everything. Generally, don't make the halyard thicker (heavier) than necessary and use rope that is intended for the purpose (low stretch). It saves weight aloft, which is good. Most modern ropes are so strong that the practical limit is what you can still grip (and your cleats will hold). A rope with a grippy cover might well go down to 1/8" or 5/32" (or metric equivalent).

Papajoe wrote:From what I can tell is that I need to learn the basics of sailing before I add more.


Better understanding of what various controls do (or are supposed to do) on a boat may help you understand how to set up basic rigging, and as your understanding grows, you may go further.

For Basics of Sailing there are many good references; I'm also collecting some info in a thread "Basic Concepts and Techniques" here. There's also the "Everybody is an expert Sailor?" thread which really is the one meant for people asking questions, on any level, about boat handling.

Papajoe wrote: I am not rigged for a traveler. ... The guy also has a single block on the boom that is wired to a cleat with bailing wire. So I ordered the piece to attach to the boom that holds the block from D & R. So I figured a double block would make pulling the main sheet easier. I asked about sail size because I have noticed on YouTube the videos show their masts are higher over the cockpit than mine. Mine is very low and hard to even get under when tacking. plus I need to pull it down ever farther because I am spilling to much air out of the top of the sail. The is much much faster when I grab the boom by hand and pull it lower. What are the advantages or disadvantages to the ratcheting block that you suggest? Is it more work to release the ratcheting?


If you have center-boom sheeting then definitely a double block would help. If you have a double block with a becket at the boom and a triple (or a double and separate single) at the bottom you can get a 5:1 purchase, which is equivalent to what I have. The ration requires that the final end is tied of at the becket on the block at the boom. You may find that using a set of fiddle blocks works better; I've sailed on boats that had them, but I haven't priced them compared to standard double blocks - check out Fisheries Supply: https://www.fisheriessupply.com/harken- ... wivel-2655. They have other ones, but I think 40mm is fine. If you want to use them, both ends should have fiddle blocks.

The way people fit three blocks at the bottom is to have the double (or fiddle) block go to an attachment right in front of the mainsheet swivel and have the swivel have the single block. That however requires that you have a strong point on your CB trunk (or the skills to fashion one). The advantage would be that the single block could become a ratchet block. The one I use has an "auto" setting that will release the ratchet if the pull on the line isn't very strong, that is, immediately when you let go, or in weak winds. Works like a charm.

If you only have a single attachment point you can only get a 4:1 purchase (end of the sheet tied to a becket on the bottom block). Still better than what you have.

You haven't shared pictures as far as I can tell, which makes it tricky to advise, and some of what I write may not apply, but I can't tell that.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: sheet and halyard sizes

Postby Papajoe » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:13 pm

92325-double-fixed-and-becket-1_grande.jpg
This is the block I ordered.
92325-double-fixed-and-becket-1_grande.jpg (8.83 KiB) Viewed 5752 times

dr312.jpg
I ordered this to fix the bailing wire issue.
dr312.jpg (1.61 KiB) Viewed 5752 times
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Re: sheet and halyard sizes

Postby Papajoe » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:18 pm

This other pictures I have are bigger than the maximum and wont upload. Don't know how to change that.
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Re: sheet and halyard sizes

Postby GreenLake » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:30 pm

Pictures: you can host on a photo site and then post the links here. Or you can find some program/app to resize them.

On a desktop computer, if you try to mail them you may get an offer to resize. You can then mail to yourself, save them after they arrived resized, and then post them here.

If there's an image that was resized for mailing that doesn't make it here by being over "just a little" bit, I can tweak the limits (but I'm not going to allow full-size pictures).

"Size" is not just pixel dimension, but also the storage size. JPEG allows different levels of compression. For the forum, we like a "medium" or 65-70% setting as best compromise between storage space and fidelity. Some programs allow you to select specific ratios. (I personally use "Resize My Photos" on Windows, or "Affinity Photo" which costs $49 and runs on Windows or Mac, and is one of the better full-featured programs despite the price).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: sheet and halyard sizes

Postby RobH912 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:53 pm

The easiest way I’ve found for the picture size work around for this site using an iPhone is to mail the pictures from your phone to yourself (phones always ask about attachment size), use your computer, open the mail, save reduced size photo to a separate folder (not back to your photo library) and then post the reduced size photo from your computer. Pretty easy once you get the hang of it... and posts with pictures provide so much information to others for them to comment on the topic.
Rob


DS1 #2444
Cape Cod
Eastham, MA
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