Vang mount distance from mast

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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby Fly4rfun » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:36 pm

sounds like you had a good time. but it wasn't worth it for me to set the boat um and get wet. on the Motorcycle, I don't like to start out in the rain or cold, as I don't have heated gear. but if i get caught in it I won't turn back. rode for 4 hrs in a down pour one time with about 5 others, didn't like it, but I do have good rain gear. if I had more experience and a bigger lake i might pursue sailing in it.
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby GreenLake » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:57 pm

It's not so much for the bragging rights, but about making use of any opportunity. Now, most of the times you'd find me in iffy weather is when it's a scheduled event, like a race (even a "fun" race). The event is scheduled, the crew is scheduled, why not go out and have fun, even if the weather goods are withholding some of the sunshine.
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby Fly4rfun » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:33 pm

Yep, did a fall ride WV Fall ride, nice weather getting there, 4.5 hrs with stops. next day was cool but doable, but on the way home, 52 deg, that's standing still , factor inn 65 mph on top of that. plus we were chasing a rain storm so roads were damp. fortunately i had on my old ski gloves, (had to stop when my hip got replaced) I have a waterproof winter coat, long johns flannel Levis, was still cool. all in all loved it. and this is a ride i do not miss, my 9th year going. 640 miles round trip with the mileage we put on down there riding around . had a great time. but i"m getting of track for this subject
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby tomodda » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:02 am

Gary:

Don't worry, "thread drift" is pretty normal here. In that vein, I'll tell you about my grandfather - he was a doctor, but at the sailing club he was known as "Sturmwolf" (we're German). This because he was famous for sailing in any weather - thunderstorms, line squalls, gales, he was out on the lake. However, when folks asked him why, his explanation was simple - "It's not that I LIKE storms, it's just that by the time I get away from the clinic, the family, all the other things I have to do, and have time to just sail - I'll take any weather I can get!"

That being said, my father tells me he once got pitched off the masthead (trying to retrieve a halyard) when the boat got hit by a williwaw-type sudden squall. There are limits to being weather-agnostic. I, personally, try to chose weather that wont get me drowned. But I'm not going to let a little rain ruin my fun (as long as there's wind).

Also wanted to write that I admire your "getting back up on the saddle" after hip replacement, and your thirst to learn something new. I can relate - I had a massive heart attack a few years back and the boat has definitely been part of my recuperation, both mental and physical. There's a saying about chess that I like a lot: "Chess is an ocean from which a gnat may drink and in which an elephant may swim." In other words, it rewards you no matter what your skill or ability level. Sailing is much the same, you can do anything from gliding around the lake on a summer afternoon to blasting thru the Roaring 40's in the Vendée Globe Race - it's all sailing, and a joy.


Tom
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby Fly4rfun » Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:58 pm

Tom.

thanks for that.

My Heart Attack was in 2011, 100% occlusion of the RCA, hip was replaced in 1995. the big kicker was a near death illness in 2018, was not expected to live. was intubated and a medically induced coma for 3.5 weeks, year to recover or more. so my core strength is also weakened. (they told my son to come out and plan on burying me) from what I gather from reading your post were about, if not the same age. (73) I don't think I'll be doing any roaring 40's unless it's dancing to its music. I'm still trying to recuperate, most mentally from it. was told i got PTSD from it. had nightmares, etc. the ironic thing is I was a ER/ICU nurse (charge) and took care of the same people. most did not survive. less than 20% survival rate. went to the ED (VA) in one hospital which i remember some of it,and woke up
in another VA hosp in Pittsburgh a month later. so understand where your coming from. won't be afraid of sailing in the rain when i have more wind under my belt.
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby tomodda » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:01 pm

Sounds like you've been thru a lot! Stay safe, stay COVID-protected (last thing you need) and enjoy all your time in the great outdoors, whether it be on a bike or a boat :)

For what it's worth, mine was a 100% occlusion of the LAD. 17 days of ECMO, 30 days of induced coma, 15 days TL-intubated, then trach'ed, and all the fun side-affects you can imagine (my lungs are still a mess). Knees are Ok so far, though! My dog's knees on the other hand.. he's blown out both his hindleg MCL's, and at HIS age! Six! So it's not only us old guys screwing our bodies. We live and learn, I guess....

Tom
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby Fly4rfun » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:21 pm

Tom,

Wow, my first was the LAD, ECMO that's serious stuff. I did not get tracked, didn't want it, thus 3.5 weeks of intubation, they pulled the et tube with the understanding i would fly or not. yes I can imagine with the side effects, I was in a gun fight, was held hostage in the middle east. locked up in a garage. ICU psychosis. they said they were sucking out cottage cheese stuff from the lungs. (streptococcal pneumonia) one of the issues. you are lucky you have your leg's ecmo is nasty stuff. the recovery is long, my lungs are 90% of what the were.

keep plugging along.

Garry
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby GreenLake » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:21 pm

OK, we need to open a new section of the forum for who spent more time in induced coma. sheeez! :)

Glad you're finding good stories to swap and enjoying simply reading along.
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby Fly4rfun » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:32 pm

good idea we could call it The Rip Van Winkle gang. :D

I have a friend who's 15 YO son was on ECMO, lost his legs, finally succumbed to it, very sad. as a Nurse it has made me look at taking care of really sick patient differently. even tho I am retired. puts a different spin on it. when I woke up, one of the first thought i remember was so this is how it feels to die and be resurrected, not sure why other that I am a Christian
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby rhm » Sun Aug 28, 2022 5:49 pm

I've been having a blast getting to know my DS3 this summer and improving my basic sailing skills. I am contemplating rigging improvements in the coming months including adding (1) a reefing hook/lines, (2) a topping lift, and (3) a boom vang (in that order). Reefing seems essential for safety, especially as I'm mostly out alone and I've found the winds can come up unexpectedly on my sailing grounds on the Chesapeake. The topping lift just seems generally useful (one guy at my marina called it life changing! ha!!), and the vang is something that everyone says is a great addition in terms of efficiency and performance in light winds.

I've spent a couple of evenings combing the forum's discussions on these topics, and as wide-ranging as the content is, one question I haven't found an answer to is when, other than running downwind in light-medium airs, one actually needs a traditional (soft) vang -- it's implied that there other purposes, but I've missed an explicit listing. Even on other sailing forums and websites, it seems most posts only refer to using it to avoid depowering when running. I did find one discussion of hard or rigid vangs that mentioned as a benefit that "... [sail] shape is maintained in light weather, as the weight of the boom does not drag the leech down." But this benefit wouldn't occur with a soft vang, which only pulls down and doesn't exert upward force on the boom.

I'd welcome insights on why the vang is so useful and why so much purchase is needed if it's mainly used in light/medium airs.

Also, has anyone used a hard vang (or a gnav), both of which would have the benefit of avoiding the need for a topping lift? If so, what did you use and what was your experience with it?

Thanks!
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby tomodda » Sun Aug 28, 2022 6:20 pm

Rhm:

Hi, and thanks for resurrecting a fun thread. Your questions are great and deserve an in-depth answer, but time lacks right now. Short answer: The Vang helps flatten and shape the sail upwind. Therefore, I'd recommend reversing the order of your proposed additions: Vang first, then topping lift, then reefing lines. And don't forget an outhaul and mainsail downhaul or Cunningham.

Where on the Chessie are you sailing?

Tom
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby rhm » Sun Aug 28, 2022 11:47 pm

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the quick reply. I was able to rig an outhaul and downhaul pretty simply but don't have the components for the other improvements. With my old, bagged-out sails, flattening and shaping the main upwind would definitely be a big help. I take it that's when the extra purchase comes in handy.

I'm sailing just below Annapolis out of the Rhode/West Rivers and into the Bay. With the Smithsonian Env. Research Center right there it's lovely and not too crowded on weekdays. I avoid going out weekends because of the stinkpot traffic then! Looking forward to setting out for Poplar Is. one of these days... So many adventures await.

RHM
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby GreenLake » Mon Aug 29, 2022 12:53 am

To elaborate a bit on Tom's reply.

A topping lift should help when sailing in light airs where the weight of the boom distorts the sail shape. Or to keep the boom level when not sailing. For the latter use, I usually repurpose the main halyard. I have finally rigged a line that could be used as a topping lift, but haven't used it in earnest, something that's on my list when I'm out in light winds again. If you had a hard vang, that would make a topping lift superfluous.

A strong vang does extend the range you can sail before reefing, but once you get to the end of that range you'll still want your reef points. It's in the nature of things that you'd be using your vang more often. However, I ended up installing reef lines well before I added a vang, as it happens.

In some ways, the vang, used upwind, partially replaces the traveler. The effect is to provide a downward pull on the boom that's independent of sheeting angle (and therefore independent of whether the mainsheet is able to pull more down or more sideways).

If you have a fixed triangle at the transom, the effect of that is direct the pull of the sheet to the stern quarter, so the sheet pulls more sideways. If you have an adjustable traveler, you might play it in a gust, so the tension on the leech doesn't change. The vang takes over that function and you can keep your "traveler" fixed. The sheet then controls the sheeting angle with less effect on leech tension. As a result, your sail will stay flat as you let out the boom (in a gust) and you won't have the sail powering up as it would with a lifting boom, when your aim is to depower the rig.

Hence the ability to handle somewhat stronger gusts w/o reefing. And in any case in a more controlled manner.
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby rhm » Mon Aug 29, 2022 9:30 pm

Dear GL,

Thanks for the elaboration -- very clear and helpful. My DS3 does not have a traveler so having a way to control sheeting angle with less impact on leech tension would be great (I've contemplated adding installation of a traveler to my project list). Being able to let out the main during a gust without having the sail power up (something I think I have noticed on my current vang-less rig) seems important as well.

I'm hoping that someone else out there has tried using a hard vang and can share their experience with it. I've seen several on offer that are intended for smaller boat like the DS. I guess one disadvantage is that it would be an impediment to moving across the cockpit when tacking or jibing -- but then again, so would a soft vang now that I think about it.

Thanks again,

RHM
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Re: Vang mount distance from mast

Postby GreenLake » Tue Aug 30, 2022 11:27 am

Hard vang: If you frequently sail in very light winds, having a way to support the boom that's easy to adjust would be a benefit. Likewise, if you raise or lower the main on the water, having a support for the boom that doesn't need to be specially rigged because it's always in place could be a benefit. If price, installation and weight seem acceptable, I can't think of an obvious reason why you should stay away from one. (I'm not sure how it would work in a capsize, but the issue probably isn't that different from a soft vang).

One thing that would be easier with a topping lift: raising the boom high aver the horizontal. Something that might be of interest for camping on board (if you find a horizontal boom in the way). But some here have described boom tents and similar setups have work with a horizontal boom.

That's as far as I'm prepared to speculate on this topic. Looking forward to reading your report of actual experience with whatever setup you describe.
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