DaySailer II vs. BW Harpoon?

[dickseacup]

Hello-

I'm new here, although I think I've read every post on this board over the last month or so. I've never sailed, although I've always wanted to learn. About a month ago, I came across a mid-70s DaySailerII that looked to be in good condition (excepting a gouge to the fiberglass that was repaired with marine tex and covered with a thin layer of gelcoat....it is above the water line, though, according to the seller...something about a rough docking experience). This boat includes sails, trailer and a cover. I thought it sounded perfect for learning to sail, but got cold feet.

Now, I haven't really stopped looking and today I found an early 70s Boston Whaler Harpoon 5.2 (I think that's right...the 17' version). Also, with sails, trailer, etc. but at a little more than twice the price of the DaySailerII.

I fully comprehend that I'm asking this question on a forum dedicated to the DaySailer, but...if you were in my shoes, which would you lean towards? I'm thinking there are far more parts available, and far more owners (based solely on numbers produced) for the DSII, which makes it more attractive to me. But, on the other hand, a Whaler is, well, a Whaler. Seriously, though, any input would be greatly appreciated, especially if it's pragmatic, unbiased input.

Oh, this would be primarily for inland lakes here in Michigan, although after I learn how to actually sail, I wouldn't rule out taking it out on some of the 'smaller' bays (Tawas, east arm of the Grand Traverse). My plan is to buy something not too small (a Laser or Sunfish would be too small, I think, as I'd like to be able to take my wife and son out at some point) but not too big in order to learn on, then in a year or two move up to, say, a 22-26' trailerable sailboat.

Thanks for the help and input!

[Bob Damon]

The Harpoon has more sail area and is a bigger boat but with less freeboard. Both boats will fit your needs however the Harpoon does not have a current Class Association like the Day Sailer so there will be no one to help answer other questions as they arise. Good Luck. Bob Damon

[dickseacup]

Thank you, Bob, for replying. I had noticed that there is a semi-active Harpoon group over on the trailersailor forums, but based on the number of units manufactured, I have to believe the DS is going to be better 'supported.' I guess I was just attracted by the BW name...well, the clean lines didn't hurt, either. The price differential alone between the DSII and the Harpoon seemed to suggest (to me) that the DSII would be a better value. Although, it appears that the Harpoon enjoys an elevated resale due to the relative scarcity...and the name.

As I have exactly zero real experience (although I've read a library shelf worth of sailing books<G>), is more sail area a good or bad (or neither) thing? I would think that as a ratio, sail area::LWL or sail area::displacement it might be more important than just a number on it's own. But, what do I know.

Is the DSII a 'tippy' (for lack of a better term) boat? I'm not so concerned about embarassing myself at the ramp, but the thought of having it turtle (hope that's the right word...capsize and turn upside down?) when it's just me is...scary.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply!

[Roger]

I think the best term to describe the DS II is forgiving. I can singlehand mine and by sailing conservatively can actually manage quite a stiff breeze. By conservatively, I mean, reefed sail, both sheets in one hand and the tiller in the other. Under these conditions it will give you lots of warning as the wind builds and she starts to heel, then eventually turns up into the wind. If you deny her self management in this way by cleating the sheets and leaving them cleated, lashing the tiller midship, then moving about the boat, you are asking for trouble. I have tried argueing with the boat by hiking out and holding on the the sheets and tiller as she heeled. She eventually took in about 5 gallons of water over the lee quarter, letting me know she needed to turn herself into the wind. When I allow her this move, she did it by herself, righted herself and slowed.

I have sailed her with four adults on board, (two of them hefty)... no problem. She is easy to manage, light to tow, easy to learn on, yet a great responsive boat that will teach you lots about sailing. She also has a great cuddy to store all your gear.

I have also written a book on her repair and maintenance, although it sounds as though the one you are looking at is in fairly good shape. Certainly one of the things that seems to innoculate me from two-foot itis is the strong class association, forum and support for this boat. Although I live in the middle of the country (Manitoba), I feel a strong affinity to this boat.

[dickseacup]

Thanks, Roger. My wife wishes I would get past the boat thing, but it seems to just be getting worse. The idea of actually buying a sailboat, as I said, something I've wanted to do for many years, is at once thrilling and frightening. If I do wind up with the (or a) DS, I'll have to check out your book. Is there someplace with a sample chapter or preview available?

[Roger]

Yes you can check some of the picture and text samples at this website.

http://groups.msn.com/RogerConrad/shoeb ... lbumlist=2

There are 4 pages of pictures and accompanying text. The book itself is 100 pages. Here is the promo:

Book Promotion

If you own an older O’day Daysailer II and do some of your own maintenance, repair, or restoration work, then this is THE book you want to have in your possession. With 100 pages including over 100 illustrations, pictures, and tables, the book entitled, Understanding, Maintaining and Repairing your Daysailer II, covers some of the most common fixes and upgrades to make sailing the DS II more comfortable, convenient and safe within the class rules. Included in the publication is a builder chart to determine the year and manufacturer of most daysailers. As well, the Daysailer Association’s specifications and measurements document is included in the publication; an invaluable guide for making modifications within the class rules, or restoring your boat to its original configuration. Also included is the rare, and original copy of the manual that came with the new boat from O’Day. Although the graphics from the original manual are scanned to preserve their historic nature, the text has been transcribed by the author to improve readability.

Understanding, Maintaining and Repairing your Daysailer II is available for $26 ($20 for the book and $6 shipping and handling anywhere in the continental United States and Canada. Shipping takes approximately two weeks following the processing of your cheque. Contact the author at roger02@mts.net for ordering and delivery instructions. The book is a limited print edition, so order early. Supplies may not be available for long.

The publication is also available on CD ROM in Microsoft word format with full color .jpg images. This allows the viewer to magnify detail of the many high resolution digital pictures of the common repairs fixes and restorations made to this classic boat. The CD is the same cost ($26), but if you order both the book and the CD at the same time, the cost is $36 total.

The author, Roger Conrad is a frequent contributor to the Daysailer forum, home of the Daysailer Association, and the O’Day Owners forum on the Internet. He sails a 1974 DSII which he restored, repairs, and maintains with loving attention. He started sailing repairing and restoring sailboats 25 years ago.

The book includes the following topics (excerpts taken from the table of contents: History of the o’day daysailer, The DS I, II, AND III: differences and similarities, Manufacturer by year and model, Builder chart, General lines, Original manual (day sailer operating and rigging instructions), Specifications and measurements, Common repair and maintenance issues, Transporting the mast, The boom and its parts, Mast raising, Rigging, Jib, Mainsail, Traveler, Reefing, Spinnaker, Bailers and drains, Motor mount, Rudder assembly, Transom, Cuddy, Centerboard, Cb control lines and rigging scheme, Reattaching the uphaul tang, Careening your daysailer, Removing the cb, Reinstalling the centerboard, Replacing lines, Reattaching the cb downhaul, Managing leaks, Removing the cb pivot bolt, Uphaul holes, inner hull or bilge, Drainage in the inner hull (limber holes), Under the cockpit sole, Under the seats, Behind the seats, Under gunwales, deck and coaming, Creating more access to the inner hull.

[dickseacup]

Thank you, Roger. Is the electronic version of the book searchable or is it scanned pages of the paper version?

[Roger]

It is in MS word format with full color jpeg images, therefore fully searchable using MS word. Included in this CD is the color master of the publication, Understanding, Maintaining and Repairing your O'Day Daysailer II, and the original Daysailer manual and rigging instructions. As an added bonus there are 179 jpeg images in a separate picture file on the cd, much more than are in the book. These are categorized into 15 different topic areas representing the various systems on the boat These too are not only searchable but printable, so that you can take the picture or text to the boat when you are working on it.

The first publication is copyright protected and cannot be copied for redistribution. The original purchaser may however make or print a copy for their own use.

Pictures in the publication, may be copied and pasted into any compatible graphics viewer, then saved into your hard drive for enlargeing, closer viewing, or enhancing features by darkening or lightening the exposure, and of course printing.

[dickseacup]

Thanks again, Roger. My wife's uncle (a sailor!) is in town today. I showed him the pictures I've received of the DSII that I'm interested in. Turns out he has a BW Harpoon hull behind his garage, sans mast and sails. That being the case, he told me the DSII is really the way to go. In fact, he spent the better part of the morning pushing me towards an immediate purchase of the DSII.

I think the gods may have spoken.