Cuddy Doors

[Alan]

It was pure looks. The first layer of finish was oil-based stain. The black latches looked fine next to it, but, once I got the varnish on, they looked sort of dull, and I've always been a sucker for shiny stuff.

The Cabela's latches are very easy to install. All that's needed is to thread the retainer ring onto the latch body from the back side of the door. The stainless latches are secured by screws that pass through the recess where the handle fits, so they need something on the back side of the door to attach to. I ended up making backing plates from 1/4 inch ABS plastic sheet.

The varnish took forever, by the way - I'm definitely trying GreenLake's epoxy-first method on my new mast crutch.

[hectoretc]

The cuddy opening surface is pretty warped, so I put standard edging on it, and air conditioning pipe foam over that. This compresses enough when the door is secured to form what looks like a good seal.

Hi Alan,
Thanks for the PM response to my query about the edging on your cuddy hatchway. I'm replying here to "re-queue" this discussion to get it back to the top of the list so I can find it easier again. Interesting stuff about cuddy doors which is certainly another winter project for me.
I'm curious how the foam has held up over the past year. Is it UV stabilized so the sun doesn't break it down (more plastic products are being designed to decompose in sunlight... keeps the landfills happy).
Also curious if you pursued the waterproof/water tight/water resistant end of this as to how well is seals with your hatch.

Thanks again for the reply

[Alan]

This particular foam has been covered almost constantly, so it hasn't deteriorated at all. Similar foam on another trailer has been exposed to the weather and sunlight constantly for about five years. I scratched and poked at it just now, and there's some slight crumbling of the outer layer, but overall it's still resilient.

I haven't tested it for watertightness, but with the door locked on, it does form a tight seal. I should probably run water on it at some point to see what happens - if it doesn't keep out water, it'd be better to find that out in the driveway than during a capsize.

[hectoretc]

Is the foam glued on, or does it stick pretty well by itself?

Thansk,

[talbot]

After reading this earlier thread, I made a hatch with the foam on the hatch side. when the hatch is off, the cuddy opening is unchanged. The foam is compressed, and has held up for two seasons. The boat is moored on a lake, with no cockpit cover, and the hatch is waterproof in terms of rain. I keep thinking I should intentionally capsize the boat at a dock to see what happens, but somehow I'm not very motivated.

[Alan]

Ya know, foam on the hatch sounds like a good idea. Maybe I'll redo mine. The foam isn't glued. It stays on until I climb into the cuddy, then it comes loose.

By the way, Scott, thanks for posting all those photos of your work in progress. I'm finding them helpful for my own projects.

[talbot]

I'll try to remember to post pictures. It's not as nicely finished as the previous examples. I keep tinkering with it, moving the latches, cutting away excess wood. It's become a Frankenhatch. The Project that Will not Die.

[jeadstx]

This is the hatch cover that I made for my boat.



I like the idea of the pipe insulation foam on the opening. I may have to check that out.

John

[hectoretc]

[quote="jdoorly"]I promised you pics of the companionway hatch so here's that...
][/quote
I moved this quote from the discussion on jdoorly’s rudder lever-jack to here because I didn’t want to drive that discussion thread off topic.

Ever since I first saw jdoorly’s companionway hatch modification to Desperado, I’ve been intrigued by it, and had been thinking of something similar for my boat. Now, having spent a lot of time in the past few weeks crawling in and out of the cuddy, and more than several times banging my head on the cuddy lip and ceiling, it reinforces my desire to do something with it this winter.

So does anyone have an opinion on the viability of cutting a way a section of the cuddy roof/deck (trying to make it sound nautical) and adding reinforcing edges to both the cuddy roof/deck and the cutout piece in order to re-use the cut out as the main hatch component?
The constructed edges would need to be watertight, but I don’t see any reason they could not be raised similar to what jdoorly did with his.
This is a picture showing the general concept of what I’m aiming toward.

It really is very close to what jdoorly did, but a little clearer shot of the edge components. Obviously this is not a DaySailer, and the lines of the frame would be different, and jdoorly has essentially proven it will work, but but can anyone come up with a reason that my idea of reusing the fiberglass cut out panel is a non-starter?

For jdoorly specifically, while cutting and documenting my porthole project, I took a number of inside the cuddy shots, and an athwartships roof/deck support can be seen in this photo.

Did you have to pay any special attention to that when fabricating your companionway hatch? Does it draw strength from its entire span (as an arch) or is it just a fiberglass support, and by screwing it into the companionway assembly, it should still be able to support nominal weight on the deck in that area (since I likely would avoid standing on the hatch)?

Thanks for any thoughts you all may have.

[GreenLake]

@hectoretc: Spell checker "athwart" as in "athwartships" - you had an extra "n".

[GreenLake]

The stringer (or stiffener).

That square U channel adds significant strength to your deck and helps stiffen your boat. By cutting an opening in the first place, you are weakening the cuddy roof. If you also cut through that stringer, you'd compound the problem.

Creating a raised edge adds back a little strength, but probably not enough. I would consider adding such a U channel around the entire opening (from the underside, where it's not in the way of operating any hatches).

The material.

There's no need to use wood. You could use wood to make a frame and use any cutoff pieces as "panels". Or you could figure out a way to add the bit that would be necessary for the overlap by a bit of fiberglass work.

If you use the proper technique, there should be no reason why the additions wouldn't attach very solidly to the "recycled" piece. If the hatch proves not quite stiff enough, you could add small stiffeners (1/2" x 1/2" U channel). See the wood stiffeners that jdoorly added underneath the hatch.

The challenge in doing this work in fiberglass would lie in supporting your laminate during lay-up. The advantage would be that you end up with a much less maintenance intensive result. Reusing the cutout saves a bit in material, but also makes sure that most of the piece already has the correct curvature.

Normally one would construct a plug, then make a mold, and finally lay up the laminate in the mold. (You could use the cut-offs in making the plug.) I'm assuming that you are aiming for a hatch that's effectively a shallow pan, with edges pointing downward outside and around the opening.

You could of course "cheat" by just laminating the edges around some suitable male form (strips of waxpaper covered styrofoam on which you rest the cut-out). The downside is that you'd have to create a smooth outer shape by sanding and filling. But as you have the cut-out as a guide, it should not be all that difficult to arrive at a reasonably fair shape.

Whatever you do, make sure you create enough overlap beteen cut-out and new laminate to get the additions to stay in place.

(You could, of course, also cut out a slightly wider opening, and then make the additions for the necessary closure mainly on the inside of the opening. Think: adding a lip on which you'll later add some gasket - like the ones used for a non-sliding car sunroof. The upside is, with the right seal, you could get a "flush" appeareance instead of a raised hatch. The downside is you would need to work overhead...or turn the boat.)

As your plans solidify, why not run up a sketch or two of your preferred strategy. Better basis for discussion.

[hectoretc]

@hectoretc: Spell checker "athwart" as in "athwartships" - you had an extra "n".

Ah... see that's why I needed spell check. What good is it if it can't figure out what I meant? (computers...)

Thanks!

[jdoorly]

Ever since I first saw jdoorly’s companionway hatch modification to Desperado, I’ve been intrigued by it, and had been thinking of something similar for my boat. Now, having spent a lot of time in the past few weeks crawling in and out of the cuddy, and more than several times banging my head on the cuddy lip and ceiling, it reinforces my desire to do something with it this winter.

I made this same decision, but realize also that the cuddy top is prime realestate for control lines, that in the future you may not need as much access to the cuddy as you do right now (for instance bulkhead to bulkhead is 5 1/2 feet- not great for sleeping), and that you may someday sell the boat and the new owner may want it stock. That the existing bulkhead hatch is easy to make watertight and this new configuration is not. And, that you might want to get some sailing experience under your belt before making certain decisions.


So does anyone have an opinion on the viability of cutting a way a section of the cuddy roof/deck (trying to make it sound nautical) and adding reinforcing edges to both the cuddy roof/deck and the cutout piece in order to re-use the cut out as the main hatch component?
The constructed edges would need to be watertight, but I don’t see any reason they could not be raised similar to what jdoorly did with his.

I thought about using the 'cast off' piece in some way but I really wanted to make a pretty, round (actually conical), traditional hatch cover. There isn't room to make a sliding hatch like in your example picture, but a hinged front gives plenty of room I often sit on the collapsed weatherboards with my feet inside the cuddy. My battery box both impairs and enhances access: if you want easy access into the cuddy it's in the way, if you want to get to stuff from the mast back it's great. I don't consider the hatch watertight because if underwater there would be trickles or worse. However, it does keep water out due to the outside overlap and a vinyl "P" weatherstrip along the bottom. You may not have noticed that the framing is two layers. the bottom layer are wedge shaped pieces the make the cuddy top level to receive the upper frames. the frames are all glued with 3M 5200 and through bolted. I haven't yet had any reason to believe the cuddy top is not structurally sound. As a matter of fact you may be able to reduce the cross sectioal area of the frames: I used 3/4"x2.5" plus the wedgies, you might go to 1/2"x1.5" especially if you do GL's idea of frames over and under. I stand on the hatch all the time and haven't hardly scratched the varnish. BTW, sorry for such lousy pics, they are not adequate for our use.


This is a picture showing the general concept of what I’m aiming toward.
Image
It really is very close to what jdoorly did, but a little clearer shot of the edge components. Obviously this is not a DaySailer, and the lines of the frame would be different, and jdoorly has essentially proven it will work, but but can anyone come up with a reason that my idea of reusing the fiberglass cut out panel is a non-starter?
That sounds very doable, did you notice mine is a rhomboid.


For jdoorly specifically, while cutting and documenting my porthole project, I took a number of inside the cuddy shots, and an anthwartships (my computer spell check couldn’t recognize that word) roof/deck support can be seen in this photo.
Image
Did you have to pay any special attention to that when fabricating your companionway hatch? Does it draw strength from its entire span (as an arch) or is it just a fiberglass support, and by screwing it into the companionway assembly, it should still be able to support nominal weight on the deck in that area (since I likely would avoid standing on the hatch)?
Naw, it's just a stiffener, I just cut through it. The framing replaces the stiffener function. Theoretically I suppose that no matter what you do it won't be as strong as the original, but I haven't noticed any bending, oil-canning, or what-have-you and I have looked! But whatever you do make sure you can step on it! You probably will...

[hectoretc]

Jay - I've been meaning to ask you about this for a while, but I keep forgetting with all of the other conversations in progress.

Regarding your companionway hatch, the photo on the left, obviously shows it opened, the center photo, a reverse angle picture from the front showing what I "think" are a basic hatch style hinges, but then the 3rd photo seems to imply the hatch is loose and set back, which really can't be the case because the center photo shows very little space between the hatch and the mast. Is the 3rd photo an optical illusion, or do you have quick disconnect hinges, or what am I seeing here?

Then my final question for this post - in the 4th picture, as the cuddy roof/deck is curved, with your hinges set more towards the outside edge, did you have any trouble with that edge of the hatch binding against the curved fiberglass cuddy top as you open it?

Thanks - Scott

[hectoretc]

I guess another "just curiosity" question for anyone who's had the unfortunate opportunity to experience a capsize. Assuming the mast doesn't sink in which case all bets are off, where does the waterline come to on the DSII (when laid down sideways in the water)?

Did the designers put the cuddy hatch edges in far enough to not flood simply by laying the boat on it's side or is it pretty much a forgone conclusion that without at least some kind of reasonable water resistant hatch, the cuddy is going to flood on any capsize?

Again just curious. Thanks