Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

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Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby klb67 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:58 am

Could someone with a 1976 ish vintage DS II post a good picture of how the centerboard downhaul (to lower the centerboard- hopefully my terminology is correct) is routed once it comes out the top of the centerboard trunk inside the cuddy? My efforts at searching for such pictures found one showing the line coming out but that's it, and otherwise dead links.

I had my DSII off of the trailer and in the water for the first time yesterday. I wanted to check operation of the centerboard. I THINK the uphaul line is routed and functioning propertly. It is a wire coming out of the trunk into the cuddy, transitions to braided line (1/4"?) that runs through a series of blocks on the cuddy floor, and out through the bulk head and is cleated on the starboard side of the centerboard trunk. The prior owner added a few wire clamps at the joint, but it otherwise looks like I think it should.

The downhaul is a larger (3/8" or bigger) twisted line that comes up through the trunk and has a loop tied in the line with several feet of tail. This doesn't look factory. There is a sizeable eyebolt mounted through the top of the cuddy roof. I assume the prior owner connected a rubber bungie between the loop and the eyebolt (a short rubber bungie was hanging from the eyebolt when I got the boat).

I'd appreciate any guidance on how the downhaul should be rigged and what I might need to purchase to do so. That SHOULD be the last thing I need before getting the boat out on the water. I should have taken a few pictures of what I have for better clarity, but I didn't and hopefully have described enough to get the help I need. The existing bungie is too long to keep tension on the downhaul and too short to be doubled up and go back up to the eyebolt. I could find a replacement, but assumed this was not the way it came from the factory.

I swam under the boat to check the centerboard and it comes down fairly far, but not down to vertical (which I think is okay). The wire clamps on the uphaul hit the plastic grommet on the centerboard trunk, so it won't go any lower (if I need it lower) unless I remove the clamps. Is there a specific angle that the leading or trailing edge of the centerboard should be (i.e. how far down should the centerboard come?) The centerboard seems to move fairly freely otherwise (I just pulled up on the loop to deploy the centerboard) and retracts almost up into the trunk (It hung down a 1/2" or so below the hull bottom), and I didn't detect any water around the centerboard bolt, so hopefully I'm good there. I just need to rig the downhaul correctly.

Thanks for your help.
1976 DSII - #8039
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby jdoorly » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:43 pm

Hi klb67 and welcome.

1419

Here is a pic of a DS2 CB layout, but other than that I'm not sure what year it represents. I have a 1973 DS2 and my CB downhaul exits out of the top of the CB trunk about where this pic shows the cam cleat bases. If my CB ever gets stuck I stick a 3/8" x 24" aluminum rod down thru the downhaul exit and push the CB out of the trunk.
DS2 #6408 "Desperado"
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby klb67 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:39 am

Thanks for the reply. I've seen that diagram, and it doesn't show the hardware/rigging for the downhaul. Hopefully these pics will help explain my situation. Ignore my boom vang hanging from the eyebolt in the one image. I put the bungee through the downhaul loop just to keep some tension on it, but you can see it is too long and too short to work, and I suspect not the right way to rig this.

I need to know what I should do with the downhaul line/loop? Should there be a block on the eyelet with a cam cleat?

I found pics of one boat that seems to show the downhaul line coming out of the top hole in the bulkhead and tied off at the cleat (perhaps being one continuous line for the uphaul and downhaul?). If that's right, I'll need at least one block on the eyelet, and another down on the cuddy floor (there is one unused eyelet down there). However, my downhaul line, probably added by the PO, is too large to fit through the bulkhead through hole.

The second pic also shows the uphaul, which I think is routed correctly.

15661567
1976 DSII - #8039
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby Aaron Moore » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:02 pm

My setup is like you describe. The downhaul line comes out of top of the trunk inside the cuddy, passes through hole with a bushing in the bulkhead next to the trunk, extends aft in the direction of a (too small) cleat on the starboard side of the trunk, and then turns and passes back thorough another hole with a bushing in the bulkhead to become the line that pulls the uphaul. The two lines in your picture are one continuous line in my boat.

To lower the CB, you uncleat the line, letting the CB drop, which pulls out the uphaul line, and then cleat it with tension in that direction.

To raise the CB, you uncleat the line and pull in the other direction, which pulls the uphaul line in, and then cleat it with the tension in the other direction.
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby CapeHazeSailor » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:32 pm

Hope these photos help you, my boat is a 1976 also.
CB line.JPG
CB line.JPG (67.28 KiB) Viewed 6868 times
Attachments
Daysailer CB line.JPG
Daysailer CB line.JPG (65.41 KiB) Viewed 6868 times
1976 DSII #8074
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:36 pm

Here are some pix I added to my gallery of the CB controls on The Red Witch, '79 DS2. Not sure what changes were made between 76 and 79, but obviously the DH is much different, or changes were made to TRW pre-me (although mine does agree with the schematic drawing) ... ?

Overview. Continuous line arrangement. Details of the cleats are also in my gallery:
1568

CB DH detail. Turning block for through bulkhead line is attached with an eyestrap screwed to side of CB trunk. Note: for CB uphaul, the DS2 originally had a bungee between the eyestrap located directly aft of the mast step and the bail on the block that the wire UH line is attached to, as shown in your pic. This was to keep tension on the cable to prevent jamming of the cable between the CB and the inside of the trunk. I did away with the bungee, and just make sure I keep tension on both UH and DH at all times. No jams so far! (knock on my head, um, I mean wood! :lol: ) :
1569

Detail of quick disconnect. It took me a long time to think of doing this! There's an eyestrap up there under the cuddy lip, through bolted, and a couple of quick links and a snap shackle make it really easy to disconnect the DH and open up a whole lot more access to the cuddy. Essentially, this can be disconnected anytime the boat is not actually sailing upwind: board up for running/wing 'n' wing, at anchor, beached, on the trailer, whatever - pretty much anytime you don't need the CB held down. UH still works with it disconnected:
1570

Hope these help!
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:24 pm

Ya know, the more I think about it, your PO may have been on to something! Why wouldn't a bungee of some sort work for a CB DH? Similar bungees/springs certainly work on rudders, and have been discussed here recently. It would seem to me that the same requirements for the rudder would also apply to the CB, perhaps with the exception that in most cases you want the rudder either all the way down or all the way up, whereas with the CB you need to be able to raise/lower it part of the way (i.e. close hauled vs. broad reach), but that in either case you want the foil to be able to kick up if you hit an Unidentified Underwater Object?

Let's say the board is up, with the UH cleated. You want to lower the board, so you uncleat the UH, and the bungee "helps" the board down. If you want the board only partway down, you simply cleat off the UH at that point. It's easy to tell how far down/up the board is by looking at where the UH block is on the cuddy floor.

Then let's say you hit an UUO, or even the bottom for that matter. You want the CB to be able to kick up. This is why I have an autorelease camcleat on the DH. Can you "calibrate" your bungee to be strong enough to hold the CB down, yet weak enough to let it up?

I guess the question is, is there enough room between the CB trunk and the cuddy lip for a bungee that's long/short/strong/weak enough to fit the bill?

Hmmm ... things that make you go "hmmmm?" 8)
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby klb67 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:13 am

Thanks all for the posts and pictures. Good info on what the original design was and good ideas on what my PO may have been planning/intending. I think I'm going to evaluate a bungee cord (rather than the rubber bungee) and see if I can get the right tenion that would address all of the relevant factors Tim raised (lowering assist, adjustabilty and dealing with UUO's).
1976 DSII - #8039
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby TIM WEBB » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:08 pm

No prob! The DH line doesn't have a whole lot of travel between up and down, maybe 7" - 8", so that's why I'm wondering about "bungee calibration" ... ?

Keep us posted on what you find out! I may do a bit of experimenting myself after this weekend's trip ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby TIM WEBB » Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:16 pm

Finally got back out on the H2O for the 1st time since the WCTSS IRLC, and did a bit of experimenting.

IMHO, a bungee for the CB DH would not work - not enough "travel". You'd need something more like a very strong, short-travel spring. SS? What other material? Permanent or riggable? Too many ??? - makes my brain itch! :shock:
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby shawn » Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:52 pm

If you take a look at my gallery (shawn) I have a picture there of the centerboard pulley system. To my knowledge this is the way it was originally setup. You will notice that there is a bungy chord not connected because it had snapped. It is there to pull back on the line to take up slack. I hope this helps you out.

Thanks,
Shawn
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby TIM WEBB » Sun Jul 07, 2013 8:26 pm

Yeah, the DS2 has always had a bungee on the uphaul to keep tension on the cable to prevent jamming. What we're considering is one as a downhaul, as a means of keeping the CB down, but allowing it to kick up if it needs to ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby joehalsted » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:20 pm

My '74 DS-2 (recent 'barn-find', hardly ever used) just broke the original factory wire downhaul cable that attaches to the rear upper corner of the CB and exits over a brass pulley on top of the CB Trunk & connects to a small block & tackle w/jam clete. The wire failed at the crimp inside the CB well. Can just reach it with an electrician's 'fish' so gonna haul her down on the beach and see if I can hook a new wire through the fitting ? Hope that works as it's not a lot of fun to try and find a cradle 3' high then remove the CB bolt and drop it out ~ just to replace a busted wire.
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby ChrisB » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:33 pm

FWIW, when I repaired my CB cable 20 years ago, I dry launched the boat in my backyard, rigged the mast, and then careened the boat on its side so I could remove the board. One of the control lines (downhaul I think) has an "eye" hole board through which an knotted rope is threaded. The edge of the board had broken out and I had to rebuild the hole with Marine Tex. When the Marine Tex was cured and sanded, I careened the boat again and reinstalled the CB.
Chris B.
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Re: Picture of DSII centerboard downhaul

Postby joehalsted » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:49 pm

Thanks ! and I was trying to avoid the 'dry-haul and board removal. The CB is 'pristine' and the bolt has been there for 40 years and still not leaking. On this one the downhaul wire cable parted at the cable loop crimp and the loop & crimp appear still attached to the board - so if I'm lucky I'll be able to attach a new wire - saving the 'proper fix' 'till winter. I'll post the result after we haul her down on the beach tomorrow.
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