DaySailer.org Forum

OK, just one more question today. Poop. I have been working on a bed design for the cuddy, and my crew informs my that my labor is futile (as far as the crew is concerned) unless the remodel also includes provision for inside-the-coaming sanitary facilities. I am aware of the toilet-seat-across-the-paint-bucket model, but have already decided not to bring that forward in the next design meeting.

Any thoughts . . . no, belay that . . . any -experience- out there that would inform my deliberations? Considerations of storage, tipping, leaking, and emptying are swirling round and round. It sounds like the Thetford 260B is the Cadillac of mini heads, but I am willing to go with the flow.

I would have to say there aren't too many places on a DS2 to place or conceal such a thing. Perhaps some kind of modification of the rather useless icebox so that when the lid is closed it looks "normal".

John

The only experience I could contribute is one of never having needed one.

I would imagine that it might be awkward to use one "in full view", because there's no way you can fit one in the cuddy.

However, if you have 13" of clearance below your tiller, you could shove it in the back of your cockpit. It'll be least in the way there, because you don't really want anybody to sit that far back (drags the transom under water and slows you down). And I assume you don't really want to have a permanent installation, like integrating it into a seat, because I imagine you sail for shorter distances at other times where you wouldn't need one.

Also, that would allow you to use it on a beach, as needed.

OK, look: anyone who is afraid to take a poop in public probably has no business cruising in small sailboats!

Get yourself one of these:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Reliance-Fold ... t/23760414

and some of these:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trail-D ... s/14550463

and get over it. Trust me: when everybody is "roughing it", nobody cares who is doing their business where or when. I just set this thing up in the aft end of TRW's cockpit and do my thing. There could be 20 boats around me but nobody even gives me a second look - it's just what we do! ;-P

Thanks. This is all useful. Question: are there any women on this list?

Talbot,

I gave the subject a goodly amount of thought before giving up on the idea (not because of my crew, who's a veteran backpacker).

The only convenient space for a porta-potty is in the cockpit, aft of the centerboard trunk. My plan was to build a stern locker big enough to cover the porta-potty. Hinge the locker door aft, and when you open it you've got a partial view screen. Add a couple of cloth side panels and you've got reasonable privacy (you wouldn't need the side panels if your boom tent was up).

That would add weight at the stern, but if memory serves, you have two batteries forward, so that weight, plus stuff for an overnight, ought to keep a decent fore-and-aft balance.

Go with the flow? Heh.

I have been doing the bucket and toilet seat thing on the Tx200. A little harder with the Day Sailer than it was with the Mariner I took this year.

John

talbot wrote:Thanks. This is all useful. Question: are there any women on this list?

Yes. Not many, but yes.

talbot,
You are not alone concerning the wishes of your crew. My crew would like some method of being able to use our chemical toilet while on the sailboat.
We currently have a mini chemical toilet from our tent camping days that will fit inside the cuddy for storage. My youngest daughter may get away with using it while inside the cuddy while sitting hunched over inside the cuddy, but this would prove to be too uncomfortable for any age.

After problem solving a bit, I am combining 2 wishes into one. I want wooden cuddy doors and they want a toilet. I am designing removable doors that will be hinged on the outside jams and swing outward above the centerboard trunk and rest against the lower half of the cockpit seats. A leg on each door will swing down to support the open door and to hold it in place while open. This would create privacy from the starboard or port sides. The cuddy itself will provide bow privacy. This leaves privacy from the aft. A curtain or large flag (something nautical...lol) can be hung across the opening of the 2 open, locked in place doors if someone needs it. A spring curtain rod can be used for this and will help hold the doors against the cockpit benches. The porta-potty can be placed inside the cuddy facing aft. The user can sit on it with their legs outside the cuddy and leaning forward just a bit facing aft. A man with good balance can just stand behind this privacy screen...lol. The seat of our toilet comes just to the top of the lower cuddy opening. We did to a trial on it and it proved to be adequate, however, the person's head would be above the doors in most cases. I am making a thick cardboard prototype before I buy any expensive lumber, cutting it and wasting it.

I know this isn't the best solution and it is a bit unorthodox for a DS II, but I am trying to keep myself and the crew happy. I will keep you posted as to what I learn or find out while trying to attempt this task.

At one time, a ship's master could mollify a mutinous crew with just an extra ration of grog.

I can't comment to the privacy part, as I don't even own a Daysailer (yet), but I do have some insight into the toilet system. On multi-day rafting trips we use what is called a 'groover' (because it leaves grooves in your bum). The container is a 'rocket box' ammunition can. They're getting harder to find, but I bet your local army-navy/surplus store will have some. They seal watertight and latch- no chance of spillage/leaks. There are insert and seat systems made for the precise dimensions of the ammo can- one I know of is called an ECO-Safe toilet, another is 'magic groover'.
Maybe just a bit better alternative to a bucket.
Rafting take-outs will often have automatic cleaning systems built to the precise dimensions of the rocket box. I don't think you'll find that at many marinas, so that extra bonus doesn't apply. Happy pooping!

As it happens, I was in a local surplus store yesterday and noticed a stack of ammo boxes. Why are these hard to find, with the country winding down from two wars? I would think we would have ammo cans for window boxes. Have we changed calibers on military small arms? (And if we have, I think the toilet seats should be reconfigured.)

I purchased a small (2.5 gallon) porta-potty, and as soon as I had it set up for a test run (so to speak), I decided it would not go on the boat. Hefting its 21 lbs of water, plus weight of the unit, I realized I would not be lifting it in and out of the cuddy. The stern is the obvious location, but the boat is already dragged down by 30lbs of motor and whatever is in our day bag. Not to mention that the sloshing of the holding tank would disrupt the shui of the passenger's experience.

So the porta-potty is being consigned to our in-home disaster survival kit, and I will investigate a groover for the poop.

Actually, I just did (returning to the forum to "Edit" my post.) It seems the industry has moved beyond surplus ammo boxes. The Eco-Safe now comes with its own custom-made plastic box and costs $200. That's about double the cost of a Thetford, Passport, Coleman, or similar flushable device. My Passport unit cost about $70. The search continues.

I noticed while working on something else than an 8-inch inspection port will fit on the surfaces of the seats. How about installing one and suspending some sort of receptacle in the empty space beneath it, maybe just a heavy-duty plastic bag?

There's a product called Grand Canyon Poo Powder that's supposed to make the loo's contents non-unpleasant (we own some, but haven't actually tried it).

It would be compact, inconspicuous, out of the way while sailing, and capsize-proof.

Right. You'd get a "stowaway" port that comes with a gear bag (e.g., Beckson model DP82BW). The main issue would be engineering a liner for the bag, as the standard bags are just nylon duck. I could imagine it. But I'd rather not. I just can't get into thinking of our Day Sailer as one big toilet seat. Even if we did name it Blue Moon.

talbot wrote:As it happens, I was in a local surplus store yesterday and noticed a stack of ammo boxes. Why are these hard to find, with the country winding down from two wars? I would think we would have ammo cans for window boxes. Have we changed calibers on military small arms? (And if we have, I think the toilet seats should be reconfigured.)

I haven't looked for any for a while, I just know that they were beginning to get harder to find, and go up in price, in surplus stores in the mountain west (this is about 5-7 years ago). Maybe there are more in surplus now. You can do away with the eco-safe or similar system altogether and just slap a cheap plastic seat on top for comfort, or do away with that altogether and make the groover live up to it's name.

I think the inspection port idea has some real potential. One possibility for the liner bag is something else I've use called a WAG-BAG. It's a sealing mylar bag with a second sealing bag inside and comes with dry powder chemical already inside that makes the eventual contents more pleasant. I think they're something like 3 bucks apiece. I've used them backpacking, and for one person they're good for a couple of days. Sturdy and leak proof enough (when sealed) the be able to carry around in a backpack.