Center board lines

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Center board lines

Postby jsbowman6 » Tue May 31, 2016 9:48 am

Can someone show me how the lines are suppose to run for the centerboard. The line that is pulleyed under the cabin roof (I think it's the down line) just comes out of the cabin opening and I've seen pictures where it neatly comes through one of the 2 holes , but can't figure how the line turns from going straight down to coming out the hole.
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20160531_094432[1].jpg
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Re: Center board lines

Postby itguy1010 » Tue May 31, 2016 12:26 pm

Not sure if this will help but take a look.

DS-II_cb dia.jpg
DS-II_cb dia.jpg (66.51 KiB) Viewed 17290 times



This might be what you're referring to with both ropes exiting holes in the cuddy bulkhead into the cockpit in a different model/year than your picture indicates but explains the two holes in your cuddy:
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DS II_CB draw_71-73.jpg
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73 DSII #6428
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Re: Center board lines

Postby jsbowman6 » Tue May 31, 2016 3:18 pm

Eric, thanks for the diagram.
Apparently my boat didn't have the block installed on the center board trunk to make the turn, , I can't find any evidence of something screwed to the trunk. They did install the extra exit hole. Wonder if some models had a floating block maybe tied back to the mast, inside the cuddy???
DS-II_cb dia cropped.jpg
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Re: Center board lines

Postby itguy1010 » Tue May 31, 2016 4:17 pm

Good question.

But, now I understand why my '73 has that extra hole in the cuddy bulkhead leading to the cockpit. I have the arrangement in the second diagram with the downhaul on the top middle of the CB trunk.

So, Oday changed the line routing post '73 to what you have now I guess. What I don't understand is how that is an improvement. I would not want those lines running vertically through the cuddy opening. I'm sure there's a good reason why they re-routed them. Maybe someone a lot smarter than me will let us both know.

Eric

Edit...

Ok, I think I figured it out. With the arrangement I have there is a possibility that the CB downhaul cable inside the trunk would come off the top of the CB and wedge itself in between the CB and trunk wall and thus the need for the shock/bungee cord keeping tension on the downhaul line. But, with your setup the downhaul cable can only come straight up and out the top of the CB trunk. So there is an improvement in that it eliminates the shock cord and possible CB jams for that scenario anyway.
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The "Jackie Beck"
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Re: Center board lines

Postby DigitalMechanic » Tue May 31, 2016 8:22 pm

Someone tried to modify your centerboard uphaul by pulling it through a block on the inner upper roof of the cuddy. O'Day would have had it going through that (uppermost) hole by the slightly starboard side of the centerboard trunk on the lower part of the cuddy opening. Basically the empty hole above the uphaul line that is right below it that is currently being used. I am not sure there is a great way to mod this where it is more efficient. I run mine stock, and just walk up to the cuddy and pull upwards from inside the cuddy until the centerboard goes all the way down. From there you could opt to put a clam cleat that breaks to hold it down (http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/4199-clamcleat-auto-release-racing-mini) on the side of the centerboard trunk. There is not really much adjustment to the centerboard that you will do except launching and retrieving (or sailing with only the main), so may not be worth putting allot of extra effort into coming up with a fancy way of rigging it.
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Re: Center board lines

Postby carl10579 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:20 am

Hi,
I'm fixing up a DS II that had the hull beat up and repaired some time ago. I've never sailed it, but can't wait to try her out on the Hudson. My centerboard was stuck and hanging down while on the trailer. The glass repair job was lapped into the centerboard trunk where the hing block brackets are making the centerboard stick when up. The brackets were glassed over. I thought I was going to need a new lift cable. What happened was that the cable slipped to the side of the center board and got jammed. I think that the down haul rope could force the cable to the side of the center board if they both are tight. So my plan is to replace the single 5/16 rope with two 1/4" ropes with one on each side of the cable and joining at the down haul pulley. That should keep the cable centered. Then I'm using 3M "Hysol" to fix some chips in the centerboard. I might even use a router to cut a shallow grove in the centerboard where the cable/rope ride.

Everything comes apart so simply. The problem is that getting access to the centerboard while on a trailer is impossible. How do you get the boat off of the trailer, in your driveway, by yourself? After considerable pondering, this is what I did. First I lowered the trailer hitch all the way to the ground. Then I placed a wooden bench and some boards and blocks across, under the stern (after removing the automatic baler). Then i cranked the trailer jack all the way up and placed two stout saw horses on either side of the bow. Then with planks on the horses and under the bow, I lowered the jack. Now the boat was in the air and I was able to roll the trailer out from under the boat and roll myself under.

I ground away some of the old repair using a large body grinder and a 6" DA. Also used a drum sander on a die grinder to get inside the trunk area. I will be using a chopped glass / resin mixture I found a wallymart to build up the area. Some of the old repair is over loose paint. I also acquired a DS I who's mast and rudder has some salt corrosion but no damage to the hull. Thinking of doing an "IMRON" type paint job on it and then using the DS II mast, sails, rudder, trailer, etc to make a show piece.

What do you think?

Carl
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Re: Center board lines

Postby jsbowman6 » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:02 pm

Carl,
I think you have a lot of work a head of you, post pictures when you finish it. I think your method of getting the boat off the trailer was cool. I have been pondering how myself and I think that method would work well. Thanks for posting.
Josh
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Re: Center board lines

Postby SUNBIRD » Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:51 pm

there were 3 different setups used on the CB down line for the DS II:
1) 1971-74
2) 1974-76 (actually, went until early 1977 models)
3) 1976-85

It looks like your boat may be a 1974-77 model that had the downline coming out of the CB trunk near the forward end, but did not originally have the block at the top of the cuddy. The problem with this is that there is a lot of friction as the line feeds from the hole in the top of the CB trunk to the hole in the aft bulkhead of the cuddy. The newer setup with the line running through a block at the top of the cuddy opening solved that by making the lead straight up and then down to a block on the side of the trunk and out through the cuddy bulkhead. Yes, that tackle sort-of gets in the way of cuddy access, but I've gotten used to it and it really isn't a problem. I actually just posted drawings of all 3 setups on another thread earlier today, I think it was "New DS II owner, CB problems", look there for more info.
1975_CB controls.jpg
1974-76 setup picture
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DS-II_cb1974-77 dia.jpg
1974-76 drawing
DS-II_cb1974-77 dia.jpg (231.48 KiB) Viewed 17176 times
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Re: Center board lines

Postby carl10579 » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:34 am

I've had my DS-II out on the Hudson a couple of times now and they really do sail nicely. I was worried about the centerboard ropes and cables and came up with the 2 rope down haul that works well (previous post). What I've noticed is that no matter how fast I make this boat go there is no tendency for the centerboard to swing back like I thought. I was out yesterday and the winds were pretty strong and threatening to blow the boat over. We were moving fast and making a nice wake. I had left the down haul ropes slack to see if they would pull in and they did not. Also, it's true that when hit with a strong gust on a broad reach the boat weather cocks into the wind saving you from the drink. Lots of fun!
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Re: Center board lines

Postby elrafalowski » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:41 pm

Hello,
I'm a new DS II '73 owner and still getting to know my boat.
The CB is not swinging all the way down and based on reading other forums and taking on a bit of water...I suspect I may have some water leaking in from the CB. I have the boat in a hoist and I'm prepared to unbolt the pin and remove the centerboard this week to get a better look and clean everything. Does anyone have a suggestion for the best way to detach the wire. Our plan was to try to break the crimp w/ an angle grinder so we can let the wire pass through the CB trunk hole to detach the centerboard -- and not lose wire length. Any suggestions for how to detach or is there a better way to reattach other than a permanent crimp? Please see photo.
Any tips on removing the centerboard would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
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DSII-CB-wireclamp.jpg
Wire Clamp
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Re: Center board lines

Postby SUNBIRD » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:02 pm

On m boat (1979 model) the cable that pulls the CB up (the one in your picture) is attached to the CB by a screwed on tang. I can just get the CB out of the bottom of the trunk enough to unscrew those 3 screws that attach the tang. You maybe lucky and your CB cables have been attached the same way.... but unfortunately, I think the early DS II models (1971-73) had the cable ends fiberglassed into the CB. I'd suggest replacing your cables while the CB is out as good preventive maintainance, if purchased from D&R they will come with the tangs attached to screw to the CB. You will still need to nicro-press swage the other ends to their blocks, but I guess you could use stainless-steel cable clamps instead of Nicro-press sleeves. In my drawing below of the 1974-85 CB cable setup, the tang really should be moved forward so the hole is right at the forward top corner (see picture of my CB).
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Upline_attach.jpg
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DS II_CB_top&bottom.jpg
1974 and later CB setup. Tang for lift cable probably should be located like this on older CB?
DS II_CB_top&bottom.jpg (255.95 KiB) Viewed 17067 times
OLD CB tangs.jpg
Rough layout of the tangs for a pre-1974 Centerboard.
OLD CB tangs.jpg (101.51 KiB) Viewed 17067 times
Rod Johnson, "SUNBIRD"
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Re: Center board lines

Postby KingsTransom » Wed Aug 03, 2016 6:52 pm

My boat has the steel cable on the downhaul line, while others I've seen on this board have the reverse. Both lines take a sharp turn out of the centerboard box, making me wonder how well this could work. The cleat on the side of the CB trunk is smaller than the bow cleats, and too small for the 5/16" Dacron line used for the CB hauls. I think I need to re-rig this just to make it work.

The rigging suggestions I've seen here don't allow any forgiveness for accidental encounters with shoals - seems rigged tight enough to break something if you hit bottom. Is it best to use the downhaul to get the CB down, then leave the line float so the CB can kick back?

2247
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Re: Center board lines

Postby TIM WEBB » Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:26 pm

Whoa! Those lines are rigged completely backwards: the SS cable (uphaul - brings the CB up into the trunk) should be coming out of the lower hole in the forward end of the CB trunk, and the downhaul should be coming out of the upper hole. This is where the Rube Goldberg design of the DS2 CB conrols comes into play: they must cross, and it's the crossing that is the rub ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Center board lines

Postby jeadstx » Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:20 am

Are the lines attached to the centerboard reversed to the way they are supposed to be as well? From your description it sounds like the SS line is your down haul and the other is the up haul. As Tim mentioned, the SS cable should be the up haul coming out of the front of the trunk (attached on the top of the centerboard) and the 3-braid line should be the down haul coming out of the top of the trunk (attached through a hole near the bottom front of the centerboard).

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Center board lines

Postby KingsTransom » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:22 pm

The boat is on the trailer, with the CB up. I see the Dacron line go into a hole in the bottom of the CB, so the line that lowers the CB comes out the lower hole of the CB trunk. I see the SS cable up at the top of the CB trunk, so the line that pulls the CB up comes out the top of the CB trunk. That would be bass ackwards from what I have seen on this board.

I will guess that what I have is not factory original, and should probably be changed. Given the diagrams I have seen here, "DS2 CB CONTROLS.jpg" in particular, having the uphaul line come out the top of the CB trunk would tend to bend the attachment tang up.

Why do so many here use a 2:1 pulley arrangement for the downhaul? It would seem gravity is working for you, and the drag from the water should not be so great. Would it make sense to use a bungie on the downhaul line so the CB can swing up if you hit something?
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