Center board lines

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Re: Center board lines

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:38 pm

I would change it if I were you. The Red Witch ('79) came with the DH block arrangement attached to the inside cuddy lip. The CB is not ballasted, and if the boat is moving when trying to lower it, the force of the water against the CB can make it tough to lower unless going downwind. I put a snap shackle there for quick release when CB is up, to make cuddy access easier. I understand some earlier/later boats do/did not have that arrangement. Some folks (including me) have tried bungees or springs on the DH, with varying degrees of success. In the end I opted to go for an autorelease clam cleat on the side of the CB trunk:

1570 1568 929

I used one for the rudder DH as well:

926
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Center board lines

Postby jeadstx » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:19 am

My 1976 DS II does not have that arrangement. My downhaul line comes out of the top hole in the trunk. I don't have any bungee cords that some have used. When the boat is sailing, the board can be difficult to get the board down. I can see where the block system might provide a better mechanical advantage.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Center board lines downhaul broke

Postby ndet42 » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:34 am

Just bought a DS2, 1972. CB downhaul broken. Previous owner says he just pushes it down with a stick through the cb trunk. Assuming this works is it safe? Will the CB ride up on its own while sailing? New to DS and unsure..
Certainly have my work cut out with dropping the CB and fixing but would like to float the boat and fix in the fall. Thanks and can't wait to sail this..
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Re: Center board lines

Postby carl10579 » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:46 am

I'm new to DS this year. Had to remove my centerboard and do some fiberglass repair. While out I used two 1/4" ropes for the downhaul with one on each side of the cable and it has been working fine. My centerboard sometimes drops free but usually needs just a slight tug on the ropes. I keep the ropes slack with a light bungee on the up-haul cable like in the photos and have never seen the center board move and I have had the little ship running surprisingly fast. So don't worry and fix it in the fall.

Carl
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Re: Center board lines

Postby KingsTransom » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:49 pm

Here's a couple of photos of my centerboard fix. I swapped the lines so the downhaul comes out the top hole in the trunk, and the uphaul out the bottom. I made a pad eye that bolts to the bottom of the existing halyard deck cleat screws. On this I have a pulley with becket for the downhaul. I made an eye strap attachment to fit the bolt rope track of the mast base for the fairlead.

The boat has a small horn cleat on the centerboard trunk for the centerboard lines. I use a 3/16" line to tie the up and down haul lines to the cleat. The 3/16" line has a water knot to make a loop for the uphaul prusik (a very secure friction hitch), one free end has an anchor hitch (slides under high load) for the downhaul, the other free end is on the cleat. I may need to experiment with different knots to see what holds the downhaul line well enough to stay put while sailing, but slides enough to let the line run if the centerboard hits something.

How much does the downhaul line move to change the CB from full up to full down? That would be one way to verify that the CB moves fully.
Anyone know the purpose of the bullseye on top of the CB trunk, left of the horn cleat?

2269 2268
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Re: Center board lines

Postby carl10579 » Thu Oct 20, 2016 7:14 am

Very clean King's Transom! Here is some pictures of my 2 rope around the cable system. Been working so far!
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Re: Center board lines

Postby Patriciasailing » Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:24 am

How do you remove the centerboard to be able to check the cables/lines? My centerboard does not go all the way up on the CB trunk unless one pushes it up by hand from under the boat while someone else secures the up-haul line. I am also in doubt if the CB stays down while sailing.
One last question for today please: I am trying to take the DSII off the trailer to check the CB locked down position without having to remove it if possible. I am planning to jack it up and put on saw horses with padding (I already did the stern sides). On the bow I am planning to put in over a board with a roller on the center, and the board will be supported by two saw horses. Each saw horse supports over 400 lbs. each. This will allow me to remove the trailer (and work on it a bit too!) any suggestions, ideas? I have to do it myself using a 3 ton hydraulic jack. Thank you!
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Re: Center board lines

Postby GreenLake » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:38 pm

As long as your saw horses are stable (!) and strong (!), I see no problem in principle with supporting a DS on three saw horses. You can tip the trailer down to slide the rear one under the transom with a tight fit. If you level or raise the trailer tongue a bit, the boat will lift off the bunks in the back. Now you can pull the trailer out, until you can slide a board under the front of the boat (anywhere forward of the CB trunk). You rest one end of it on a saw horse. You should be able to lift the free end by yourself and slide the third saw horse under. At that point the boat would be free of the trailer, and you can pull it out all the way.

If the saw horses aren't lifting the boat high enough to work on the CB, you should be able to lift each end so you can place additional supports to raise it. For lifting, you don't need hydraulics: a 4th saw horse with a long 2x4 as a lever is enough! I've levered mine up on the trailer that way and supported it with short lengths of stacked 2x6 so I could remove a roller from the trailer, for example.

To play it safe, I'd suggest a stack or two of old tires as redundant support, just in case the saw horses aren't as strong or stable as you thought.

I would recommend you get one helper (if only to slide saw horse etc. in place). Makes things easier.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Center board lines

Postby hsubman » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:06 pm

Just as a quick FYI, I have an '83 DSII and like you, thought I had a problem with the centerboard because it would not go up that final 2" into the trunk and was always resting on the keel rollers on the trailer. Try as hard as I could it would not go that final 2" up into the trunk. Thinking I had a problem, I dry launched and careened the Mary Ruth in the backyard to take a look. What I discovered was, that it takes quite a bit of effort to raise the centerboard that last 2". I could not accomplish the task until I got a good pair of sailing gloves. With the gloves, I can pull the uphaul line hard enough to raise the centerboard completely into the trunk and feel and hear a satisfying klunk when it bottoms out. Without the gloves, the line would hurt and almost cut into my fingers. Sailing gloves solved my problem, Your mileage may vary! hth John
John
'83 DSII, 12279, MARY RUTH
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Re: Center board lines

Postby Patriciasailing » Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:51 am

Thank you GreenLake and Hsubman for your information. Much appreciated!
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Re: Center board lines

Postby Patriciasailing » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:17 am

I can´t seem to find instructions and/or pictures on how to remove the CB to check the lines. Could someone direct me to this information or share your knowledge? Thanks again!
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Re: Center board lines

Postby GreenLake » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:29 am

I'm sure it's in some older post. Why don't you read back over some of the older topics? CB-related questions for the DSII have engendered lively discussion in the past, and I recall seeing that infor. Alternatively, you could wait for other DSII owners to show up (I own a DS1).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Center board lines

Postby jeadstx » Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:23 am

Depends on the vintage of your DS II. Earlier ones had a centerboard bolt that can be accessed through the cockpit inspection ports, later ones have plates on the bottom of the hull (forward end of CB) that need to be removed. There are several posts on the forum dealing with CB removal.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Center board lines

Postby carl10579 » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:03 am

Hey Guys and Gals --- Here's a Philips Head Screw removal tip that should be in the tips and techniques section.

If you are attempting to remove a cammed out Philips Head screw like those in the centerboard retention plates and you think getting those screws out is hopeless, try this. Get some Valve Grinding Compound from NAPA or get some off your Buddies tool bench and put a dab on your screw driver tip. The grit bites in and gives traction that otherwise wouldn't be there and often you can remove those marginal screws one more time. But put new ones in when it goes back together.

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But removing the centerboard requires that you get the boat in the air. Remove the plates and the blocks and support the board on a couple of jack stands while still in the slot. Let it down a little until the three little Philips head screws are accessible. You may need to go to Sears and get an offset or right angle screw driver to get them loose (and a stubby). The rope if it's good can be untied or just cut it if it's crappy. (But replace it with really good rope. When I installed the two ropes I knotted them around a short fiberglass dowel cut from a driveway marker. The ropes were a smaller diameter, 5/16 I think one rope would be 3/8.) The cable stays behind.

Once the board is out find an epoxy product called Hysol and use it to build up rounded corners where the rope and cable live and use it to repair dents and dings and all other defects.

At minimum you will need a decent random orbit sander. Either electric or air would work fine.

The rope goes in the hole with a figure eight and is back filled with a softer epoxy like glassed Evercoat or Bondo.

It's not that hard to repair these things and it's fun (for some of us). Just be safe and don't drop a boat on yourself. Wear safety glasses, dust mask, etc.

Carl
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Re: Center board lines

Postby GreenLake » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:47 pm

Great tip and nice instructions.

Have to try the valve grinding compound sometime.

The CB is not very heavy. Almost any kind of support will do, if you don't happen to have jackstands around.

When I removed mine the last time, I had my boat upside down. Turns out, the easiest way to raise it out of the trunk and lower it back down in that position was simply two slings of webbing.

I've tried to find more detail on the various products you mention. Hysol seems to be the name for a line of epoxy resins and hardeners. For building up edges you'd need some filler mixed in, but I wasn't able to find on their website whether they offer that pre-mixed, and if so, under what product number. You should be able to substitute any decent epoxy, whether from West, MAS, or SystemThree, and mix with suitable filler. I use the SystemThree a lot, because it is stocked by many of the places I shop.

Or you can get a glass fiber mixed polyester-based filler. I've not used the Evercoat filler you mention, but there is one from 3M (high strength marine filler) and that one I know is strong enough to round edges and repair dings. In fact, it's strong enough I used it to add 1/4" to the trailing edge of my CB to give it a less blunt shape (and conversely, to give the leading edge a bit rounder nose).

The advantage of the polyester fillers is that they cure more quickly than epoxy, allowing you to do multiple passes, if you didn't get it quite right on first try, and less chance for things to sag or flow out while you are waiting for the epoxy to gel.

I've used SystemThree's epoxy based fairing compound (quick fair) to add a bit of bulk to the front half of my CB. Trying to approximate a more profiled shape. Not sure whether that was worth the effort, but since I had it out anyway and the surface was cratered with cracks, I thought it couldn't hurt. The fairing compound isn't very strong, so it sands easily, an you can't use it to build up edges, but epoxy based means its fine for underwater use, something that Bondo supposedly is not (keep reading that warning).
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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