Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

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Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby AndyKatonahNY » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:11 am

:cry: :cry: Embarrassed to say that my beloved D1971 DSII that gentleman Roger gave me so much help with to make tight and refit years ago sustained very bad fiberglass damage when lower mast shifted while my 20 yo son and I sailed the Broads of Lake Winnipesaukee in relatively heavy conditions. Some idiot (me) might've not tightened the stays sufficiently and now I have crack atop the cuddy deck (not terrible I think) but a wrenching tear (maybe 4" wide, 3" long) to the deck inside the cuddy where the mast steps in. I assume there is hardware below that deck that the mast steps into that must be akilter too. I don't know a thing about fiberglass work and rough estimate from an unmotivated boatyard was astronomical compared to cost of new DS. Thinking of salvaging my intensity sails, cuddy doors, outboard, all new lines, custom boom crutch, all nice harken gear, etc, etc, the list goes on, gonna start weeping soon....ugh, and starting afresh with another hull. Found this nice one on craigslist ... it is supposed to be an '81 (and therefore a DSII, right?) but the cuddy opening shape, wood floors and rails, look nothing like my boat. What is this boat, and who made it? I've researched and can't figure it out. Any help on this, words of advice (or condolence...LOL) would be much appreciated. Roger, I'm sorry I let you down.
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby AndyKatonahNY » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:16 am

Sorry, here are the other photos of the boat that's listed...
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby Bob Damon » Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:53 pm

This is an O'day Day Sailer 1. I am unable to make out the class number on the plate from the photo so I cannot give you an approximate year, but O'day stopped making this model in the mid-70's. By the looks of the photo it has been re-painted and looks in great shape. The plus of this model is it is stiffer, the centerboard controls with a simple handle, the the DS1 boats were lighter than the DS II and because there is no inner hull, there is no accumulation of water between the hulls. Hope this helps!
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby AndyKatonahNY » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:03 pm

Thanks for the info Bob. I agree, she's a nice looking boat. Would the sails, spars and lines from my DSII be compatible, if you know?
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby mrburke » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:24 pm

my boat is the same and its a 1969 daysailer keel stepped mast, see pics, by the way I'm looking for a spinnaker for it anybody give me info to buy one, like the specs
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Re: doesn't look "totaled"

Postby GreenLake » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:42 am

AndyKatonahNY wrote::cry: :cry: Embarrassed to say that my beloved D1971 DSII that gentleman Roger gave me so much help with to make tight and refit years ago sustained very bad fiberglass damage when lower mast shifted while my 20 yo son and I sailed the Broads of Lake Winnipesaukee in relatively heavy conditions. Some idiot (me) might've not tightened the stays sufficiently and now I have crack atop the cuddy deck (not terrible I think) but a wrenching tear (maybe 4" wide, 3" long) to the deck inside the cuddy where the mast steps in. I assume there is hardware below that deck that the mast steps into that must be akilter too. I don't know a thing about fiberglass work and rough estimate from an unmotivated boatyard was astronomical compared to cost of new DS. Thinking of salvaging my intensity sails, cuddy doors, outboard, all new lines, custom boom crutch, all nice harken gear, etc, etc, the list goes on, gonna start weeping so


I'm not surprised that a boatyard estimate would be non-economical, but (my admittedly remote diagnostics is that) the hull is far from being not salvageable.

The interior cuddy deck is not structural and unless the bottom of the hull has any damage, I'd class this at worst a "medium" repair - it's not worth the time for a professional to do it, that's why you were getting the estimate you were getting.

If you rather switch to a perfectly restored boat, that's your decision, but it would be shame if you didn't make an effort to find a new owner for your old boat, one with the requisite skills and energy to fix your mistake.

Fiberglass work is something that's relatively easy to master for anyone with a reasonably handy disposition. If you don't insist on an "invisible" repair, the required skill level/effort drops off exponentially.

For example, to fix the cuddy floor, all it would take is to lay up (on a sheet of plastic on the workbench) a square of laminate (3-4 layers of cloth). Then you sand the floor around the damage area and use epoxy to glue your patch in place. Some spray paint/bilge paint and you have a functional cuddy floor again.

No need trying to lay up laminate in place in a cramped location and trying to master the skill of scarfing the repair.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby AndyKatonahNY » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:55 am

Thank you so very much for the advice and confidence building. Perhaps I should focus on finding somebody who could assist me with repair more affordably. Certainly I'm not concerned with aesthetics on the cuddy floor, and have always wanted to repaint the deck anyway. I should've posted this under heading of how to repair. What I need, I suspect, is an independent fiberglass repair person in New Hampshire or Mass. who would be more reasonable, as I don't mind paying a fair price for this work if it's less than replacing the boat. She's otherwise in very nice shape. We've done a lot to her and put lots into her over the years, parts wise.
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby GreenLake » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:54 am

It looks like you've done a bit of work on the boat to set it up where it sails well. So I'm curious about your reluctance to tackle this issue yourself.

I've always thought of fiberglass as the ultimate DIY material. It's like putting on a bandage.

We can certainly walk you though doing it yourself. Perhaps you have a friend who's able to lend moral support?

The first step would be to enlarge the opening enough that you can see what happened to the mast support below the cuddy floor. There's normally a short post - several people have posted pictures (look through the DSII specific posts).

It might just be enough to remove/extract the compression post/lower mast part that's sitting in the hole in your picture, so it's possible to look below and photograph the damage. Looks like you could just bend the torn part out of the way for better viewing.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby AndyKatonahNY » Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:58 pm

OK. The boat is in NH, where it is usually stored. I'm going back to have a look at it a week fro today and hopefully make an assessment of whether this is something I might tackle. I will remove the lower mast and see what's going on underneath. What tool do you think I could use to cut the cuddy floor to widen the hole around the lower mast preparatory to repairing the floor, if I were to do so? I'm really not terribly handy with this stuff. I think I have a power jigsaw type saw.
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby GreenLake » Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:01 am

With the right kind of blade, the jigsaw might do. I think something finer toothed/harder blade, the hardware store people might know. Probably also set it to not cut as fast, but probably not as slow as metal. Bring a spare blade or two, I'd expect they would dull from the glass. Otherwise, use an angle grinder or a cutting disk on your drill. Be sure to wear a good mask and eye protection, perhaps the "ski-mask" kind rather than the "laboratory glasses"- style. The dust is not too healthy.

Make sure you take some more pictures also of the crack in your deck (from below as well).

When evaluating this repair: the mast support below the cuddy floor can be rebuilt in many different ways, as long as it's strong enough to transfer the pressure to the keel (and as long as it keeps the bottom compression post (mast below the hinge) in place so it doesn't move forward/aft or sideways. It's not necessary to make it look like it did before. (Check that no hole was punched into the hull itself - if anything looks damaged check for flexing - but even that would succumb to a simple fiberglass "bandage" - just be careful to note conditions so we have a solid base on which to advise you).

Photos. And good luck!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby Lil Maggie » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:53 am

I am in New Hampshire if I can be of any help
Mike
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby AndyKatonahNY » Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:09 am

Thanks so much for the offer Mike. I live in NY. The boat lives in Alton Bay (NH). {lucky boat} Although with the great advice I'm getting it's indeed tempting to take up the challenge to fix her with my own ten left thumbs, the ugly truth is It might be tough to find the time to attend to this when I'm not on my annual vacation, finding a place to do it would be problematic and I'd need to trailer the boat five hours first to do so. I am going back up to have a good look at it end of next week (hopefully Thursday or Friday) and as per the excellent instructions I've received so far will take/post pictures as suggested. If, however, you know of a boat/fiberglass guy in the Lakes Region I might show the boat to while I am there who wouldn't be insanely expensive like a big boatyard, that might still be my best bet. At the end of the weekend, I need to either leave it with somebody to repair, commit to trailering it home and taking up Greenlake's challenge, junk it in NH which would break my heart or defer it all and pay for winter storage, which I do every year for this 46 year old dear friend of mine (the boat).

By the way, the guy selling the DSI that kicked off this post agrees he has no idea why he ever thought his boat was a 1981, guy from Long Island NY supposedly driving 6 hours to go look at it this Sunday. Asking price is $2k. Original repair estimate from Irwin Marine in Alton Bay was -- get this -- 40 hours labor @$140/hour, which sounded insane to me. Boat sat in lake 48 hours without taking on any appreciable water into the bilge after the mishap, doubt the hull is breached. If my high school math still works that's $5600 and they never never touched the compression post for the estimate - I think they only looked at the same pics as I posted.
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby GreenLake » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:49 pm

I think 40 hours is way over what is needed, esp. if the goal is primarily to make the boat sail again rather than an "invisible" repair (feels like 90% of the effort on these repairs is in the final surface treatment...).

I repaired a 9" hull breach from a collision in a weekend. (And that included getting the outside of hull to look like nothing had happened).

Good to know the hull isn't breached. It should be stronger than the cuddy floor and also, after that floor broke through, most of the remaining tension should have gone out of the rigging, leaving just the weight, and the hull should be able to deal with that (unless there's something like pounding in waves...)

Here's the thread about dealing with a9" crack after a collision.

My thinking is that you would use a similar technique: cut out a clean hole (in your case something like a rectangular opening). Then repair the support. After that, lay up a patch similar to what I did, perhaps make it stronger by giving it one extra layer of glass, and glue it over the hole. As it's the cuddy floor, no need to make the repair invisible or the floor "flush". That'll save lots of work. You do need a layer of paint to keep out the UV, less critical on an interior, but you don't want the epoxy to die just because someone left the cuddy doors open.

The nice thing with this general approach is that you can prepare the patch (make sure to take measurements) ahead of time at home (this part takes about 2 hrs if you are new at it, mostly re-reading the instructions :), and setting things up). Repairing the mast foot support and gluing in the patch would be something you can do on a visit to your boat (long afternoon). Again, take many measurements, you may well be able to prepare much at home.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby Lil Maggie » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:13 pm

I'd say your best bet is to follow GL's excellent instructions on patch repair....I can do glass work but it is not my forte, however, if I can do glass work, anybody can...
The alternative (DS-1)should you choose to go that route would cost more but a quick fix, and bear in mind that DS-1's though faster boats, don't sit well on a mooring or dock without a boom tent, some will argue that they are better built than the DS-II's ...I say they both have their quirks

Good luck fixing your boat. I live about an hour from Alton bay so if you are on a bind I might be able to help
Mike
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Re: Help Identify this Model of Daysailer?

Postby AndyKatonahNY » Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:37 am

Thanks Mike, I'm exploring every option and not ruling out having a go at the repair. Why do DSI's not sit well at a mooring without a boom tent? Do they not self bail, do you mean?
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