Old Yeller

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Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:37 am

Hello, new member here. Found an old yellow boat in a landlocked boatyard near Honolulu airport. Have pics, will show.

Not sure which model it is. No ID numbers seen on boat so far. State registration document says model year 1989. I have not looked at the sails yet. When I described it to Rudy of Assonet (DR marine), he asked if I was sure it is a DS. I said I think it is. Seller says it is. What do you think?

Thank You for any help !

Pics now. Talk later.
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Attachments
Center Board Handle.jpg
Center Board Handle.jpg (60.49 KiB) Viewed 3891 times
Port frwrd quarter.jpg
Port frwrd quarter.jpg (68.34 KiB) Viewed 3891 times
Cockpit and  Lounge area.jpg
Cockpit and Lounge area.jpg (75.96 KiB) Viewed 3891 times
Last edited by baggywrinkle on Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:41 am

Another pic:
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One more.jpg
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:22 pm

and another.

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Yellow Sloop.jpg
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:33 am

Wow, not sure what to tell you. She is definitely a "day sailer", in the generic sense of the term, but might not be a "Daysailer", in the O'Day sense of the term?

If she *is* a Daysailer, she is certainly not a 1989, as boats built in that year (if there even were any?) would not look like this at all. There is an outside chance that she is a very early Daysailer, but has been extremely modified? Hull, cuddy roof shape, and rear deck are where the similarities end.

A number of things stand out as being "different":

- CB lever
- Stemhead and chainplate locations
- Slope of cuddy bulkhead and shape of companionway
- CB trunk and cockpit compartments
- The list goes on!

I really hope you find an answer to you question, good luck!
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:24 am

Thanks Tim !

Well I had a hunch she was 'different' when I saw the white part, meaning the cockpit etc. Not complaining, mind you. I like the white part.

Burning question: Does the hull itself seem identical to a DS hull ?

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From astern.jpg
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby GreenLake » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:58 am

The way the CB trunk is braced with a vertical thwart is something I've never seen on a DS.

Also, the way the back of the cuddy angles does not look like a DS. Likewise the angle at the top of the hull where it meets the side decks. I would expect that angle to be closer to 90 degrees - it's hard to go by visual memory because all standard DS boats have a rubrail there.

While it might be possible for an owner to have removed the rubrail and its supporting flange, that seems unlikely.

Altogether, there's a good chance that this is one of the DS clones (or close competitors).

Can you do a precise measurement of the length and beam?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:45 pm

Thanks Greenlake !

Well this is the first I heard of DS Clones ! Piracy ! Aarghh ! Finally, I may truly qualify for flying the Skull and Crossbones.

Yes, rubrail butchery seems unlikely. Also seems unlikely someone would go to the trouble of adding all of the 'white part'.....Seems more likely the white part came out of a mold. Definitely looks like it. Gel coat. No sign of being added 'by hand' Implying production of more than one, perhaps.

Yes I plan to go today and measure length and beam, as you and Rudy of DRmarine have requested. Also to dismantle CB for inspect/replace handle and square hole fitting in the CB per Rudy's suggestion. He said the handles can break, and this one is already old and crusty.

Thanks again!
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:59 pm

Length: 16' - 8"

Beam: 72 5/8"

Length may be iffy because I used a plum bob while boat is tilted kinda high at bow due to removing CB.


Posting this with smartfone...font looks ginormous.
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:53 am

baggywrinkle wrote:Thanks Tim !

Well I had a hunch she was 'different' when I saw the white part, meaning the cockpit etc. Not complaining, mind you. I like the white part.

Burning question: Does the hull itself seem identical to a DS hull ?

The hull does indeed look very much like a DS hull, but the more I look at the shots of the stern, the more I think that if it *is* a DS hull, it may be a DS3 hull. These versions were only built for a very short time, and are not considered "class legal" because of their higher freeboard aft. The whole deck/cockpit/cuddy configuration is still way different than any production DS I've ever seen. A mystery indeed!

BTW, if this boat does indeed turn out to be a "FrankenDS", and you end up bringing her back to sailing condition, then Rudy will be your new best friend. He used to work at O'Day, knows O'Day boats inside and out, and carries most of the DS-specific parts you'll ever need.
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:21 am

Thanks Tim !

Yep, my new best pal Rudy. He is waiting for pics of the CB handle. I removed it today. Pics below. Rudy's catalog shows a longer handle for DS 1 and Wigeon. But no listing for a DS2 CB handle. Only in Rudy's catalog section for rudders, tillers, and centerboards do I see mention of DS 2 and DS3.

I hope the square lug size matches Rudy's !

My CB operates only by the handle, with tackle attached. The CB trunk has no holes for cables. Simple is OK with me.

Thanks again Gentlemen !
Attachments
CB handle 3.jpg
CB handle 3.jpg (79.22 KiB) Viewed 3851 times
CB handle 2.jpg
Slight angle in handle. Helps protect CB trunk from scraping by operator's knuckles.
CB handle 2.jpg (38.46 KiB) Viewed 3851 times
CB handle 1.jpg
CB handle 1.jpg (102.24 KiB) Viewed 3851 times
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby TIM WEBB » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:55 pm

That is because the DS1, even the current boats being built by Cape Cod Shipbuilding, use a lever for the CB, whereas the DS2 (and DS3 I believe) use a cable/line uphaul/downhaul system, which has its own set of "issues".

But again, your lever doesn't resemble any DS1 lever I've ever seen, but it *does* have the square pin. The CB size and shape would be the same for the DS1 and DS2, but the DS1 CB would have a square hole to accept the lever pin, whereas the DS2 CB has a round hole to accept a pivot bolt or pin.
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:09 pm

GreenLake wrote:

The way the CB trunk is braced with a vertical thwart is something I've never seen on a DS.

Also, the way the back of the cuddy angles does not look like a DS. Likewise the angle at the top of the hull where it meets the side decks. I would expect that angle to be closer to 90 degrees - it's hard to go by visual memory because all standard DS boats have a rubrail there.

While it might be possible for an owner to have removed the rubrail and its supporting flange, that seems unlikely.

Altogether, there's a good chance that this is one of the DS clones (or close competitors).

Can you do a precise measurement of the length and beam?


Thanks !

I wonder how that centerboard trunk is constructed. I wonder is the white liner covering or joined to an inner CB trunk, thereby making a double wall? I realize you guys probably dont know the answer since it is a mystery boat. My reason for wondering is that I'd like to install a pin going thru trunk and CB, aft and high in the trunk, just to hold CB in up position, as a back up. I'll have to crawl under with a good flashlight and hopefully determine how it is built.

Not realizing the angle of the back of the cuddy was a non-DS item, my first reaction was 'nice backrest'....need cushions.

You probably saw it above, but here again is length and beam:

Length: 16' - 8"

Beam: 72 5/8"

Length may be iffy because I used a plum bob while boat is tilted kinda high at bow due to removing CB.

Note on the beam:
It might be a little bit more but I could not measure further aft because the boat is now full of stuff. No more than an inch more, it looks like.



.
Last edited by baggywrinkle on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:40 pm

TIM WEBB wrote:That is because the DS1, even the current boats being built by Cape Cod Shipbuilding, use a lever for the CB, whereas the DS2 (and DS3 I believe) use a cable/line uphaul/downhaul system, which has its own set of "issues".

But again, your lever doesn't resemble any DS1 lever I've ever seen, but it *does* have the square pin. The CB size and shape would be the same for the DS1 and DS2, but the DS1 CB would have a square hole to accept the lever pin, whereas the DS2 CB has a round hole to accept a pivot bolt or pin.


Thanks Tim !

Yes I read about jamming cables and bungee remedy. I'm OK with simpler ways.

So I have a non-DS CB handle styled after DS1 type handle. Cast in bronze. I wonder how many sisterships this vessel might have, because production comes to mind, considering the molded cockpit/bulkhead part, and the cast CB handle.

I read on some forum page that a certain discontinued ODay model is still being produced in Japan. Makes me wonder. Hawaii is closer to Japan. Also shipping costs to Hawaii, combined with being far from 'mainland' influences, have been known to inspire *creative* alternatives. A little bit like those 'Havana Honeys' (I think they call them)....the old American cars still running around Cuba relying on home made or smuggled parts.

Long ago I saw an old catboat's CB arrangement which was a long rod going thru a slot in the after end of the trunk. It attached to the CB with a pivot so when the board was up the rod would lay down flat on top of trunk. It had a hardwood handle which capped the slot when board was all the way down. For pinning the board at various positions, the trunk had a hole high and aft, while the board had maybe three holes. Unless the board was all up or all down, the rod stood over the trunk while underway. Mainsheet was far enough aft to avoid tangling with rod.
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby baggywrinkle » Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:37 am

Well, Rudy told me it is a DS1 CB Handle, apparently broken where they usually break, he said. Other than that he said it is probably OK since it already broke. I may replace the missing section with a stainless steel extension, with hardwood grip covering the stainless. Or just keep the block and tackle arrangement which runs aft so one can operate the CB without leaving their seat cushion.

Rudy too said he never saw a DS look like this. Now I want a closer look to see if someone added the white part as a one off, or if it looks more like a production job. Wasnt there a song years ago titled Mystery Ship ?

I told Rudy that he is a folk hero on web forums. I asked if I could call him Saint Rudy of Assonet. He got a kick out of that.

Oops, I looked up the mystery ship song, and it was titled Ride Captain Ride, by The Blues Image.

Whoa, the song's youtube page has a pic of Einstein in a small sailboat. I met an old timer who worked in the boatyard where Einstein kept a boat. He said Einstein was not the greatest sailor. Sailing was his favorite pastime, I read.

Thanks again for your help guys !

Blues Image - Ride Captain Ride

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUjlBStMIHc


*
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Re: Old Yeller

Postby TIM WEBB » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:16 pm

baggywrinkle wrote:Thanks Tim !

Yes I read about jamming cables and bungee remedy. I'm OK with simpler ways.

So I have a non-DS CB handle styled after DS1 type handle. Cast in bronze. I wonder how many sisterships this vessel might have, because production comes to mind, considering the molded cockpit/bulkhead part, and the cast CB handle.

I read on some forum page that a certain discontinued ODay model is still being produced in Japan. Makes me wonder. Hawaii is closer to Japan. Also shipping costs to Hawaii, combined with being far from 'mainland' influences, have been known to inspire *creative* alternatives. A little bit like those 'Havana Honeys' (I think they call them)....the old American cars still running around Cuba relying on home made or smuggled parts.

Long ago I saw an old catboat's CB arrangement which was a long rod going thru a slot in the after end of the trunk. It attached to the CB with a pivot so when the board was up the rod would lay down flat on top of trunk. It had a hardwood handle which capped the slot when board was all the way down. For pinning the board at various positions, the trunk had a hole high and aft, while the board had maybe three holes. Unless the board was all up or all down, the rod stood over the trunk while underway. Mainsheet was far enough aft to avoid tangling with rod.

Interesting possibility, that she might have been built in Japan. As was mentioned before, there have been numerous "knockoffs" over the course of the DS's (now 60 year!) history, so who knows?

Yeah, the DS2 CB cable arrangement is her Achilles Heel, and different owners have dealt with it in pretty creative ways. The lever system is not without its own set of issues, but is generally considered to be the favored arrangement. In fact, the serious racers all sail DS1's, as they are usually lighter and stiffer than the DS2's.
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
TIM WEBB
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:28 pm
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