Self Bailer for DSII replacement

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Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby Tipster1 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:22 am

I finally removed old Depersia bailer from my 1975 DSII. It was a corroded mess. I used a Dremel grinder to cut off the retaining nut, knocked off the bottom piece and then a hacksaw blade to cut slots in the lining metal pipe and knock it out. I was able to get a replacement from http://www.SunfishDirect.com. They were familiar with the DS and sold me the longer neck version used on the older Sunfish. It fits perfectly. For those unfamiliar, once bailer is removed there is a solid pipe that runs from cockpit sole (floor) through the bilge to the outer hull. It looked like the gap between the VEE hull and flat bailer was filled with large quantity silicone. Considering that the plastic bailer isn't as sturdy as the metal piece I'd like to fill in the gap with something sturdier. What would you suggest?

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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby GreenLake » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:37 pm

If your goal is to create a flat surface for the bailer to rest against, you could use 3M High Strength Marine filler (or Marine Tex Epoxy) with a stiff plastic sheet to roughly define where you want your new surface. In effect, you'd be building a pedestal. I assume that the height you need is less than 1/4" at the edges, both suggested materials would be good for that. You'd take the plastic off after it's cured and then use a sander, etc. to make it flat and level, with smooth sides. When done, you can use a bedding compound or moderately adhesive caulk (3M 4200) to secure the "dome" of the bailer.

I wouldn't overdo that latter part. If the bailer is indeed fragile, you may have to replace it after a grounding, or whatever, so, don't make it totally non-removable. But with a level platform you shouldn't risk it wobbling.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby Tipster1 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:36 pm

Thanks. that's something like what I had in mind except treat bailer with a release agent, fill voids with something like what you suggest and and extra layer to build up laterally. Insert, tighten, and remove excess. Question was material. In past I've used JB Waterweld stick, but it's a bit too stiff for this so I will probably use West system with fairing filler.

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The only time the bailer is grounded is taking off trailer in fall. I probably will just strap on a dolly, since it's not as sturdy as the metal one.
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby peterbradley » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:57 pm

If anyone needs a De Persia Self Bailer, I have one. It's yours for free. Depending on where you are, I might have to charge you for shipping.
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby Fly4rfun » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:43 am

would it work on a DS1?
"Sail Aweigh" 1966 DS1 #2675
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby Tipster1 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:52 am

Fly4rfun wrote:would it work on a DS1?

Person to ask is Greenlake. I suggest re-posting question under DSI.
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby Acornrunner » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:33 am

peterbradley wrote:If anyone needs a De Persia Self Bailer, I have one. It's yours for free. Depending on where you are, I might have to charge you for shipping.

I need one have a DS2. Live in Il
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby Acornrunner » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:34 am

Nice to see what this looks like, the former owner of my DS2 has made the project a bit more complicated for me.
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fiberglass over drain
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby Tipster1 » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:12 pm

Acornrunner wrote:Nice to see what this looks like, the former owner of my DS2 has made the project a bit more complicated for me.

Oh my! Can you communicate with F.O.?
Did he just cover the entire thing?
What is on the bottom of your boat?
If the tube connecting the cockpit sole to the bottom is intact, I imagine you could remove this with a Dremel and reinstall DePersia or Sunfish bailer pretty easily.
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby InterlochenDood » Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:54 am

I have the original self bailer removed and wondered if others have installed the replacement without adding filler to the bottom of the boat and how that turned out. I have 4200 and was just going to use that but it seems a little awkward installing a flat bailer on a vee shaped surface.
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby Tipster1 » Sat Aug 21, 2021 2:46 pm

InterlochenDood wrote:I have the original self bailer removed and wondered if others have installed the replacement without adding filler to the bottom of the boat and how that turned out. I have 4200 and was just going to use that but it seems a little awkward installing a flat bailer on a vee shaped surface.

Don't forget that the original DePersia bailer also had a flat base resting on a V hull. I added West epoxy with filler to voids on bailer and to fill in gaps between bailer and hull when I installed new unit. I can't testify how strong it is, but it looked nice and bailer works quite well!
Sorry, but I forgot to take picture and boat is now on its mooring.
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby InterlochenDood » Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:53 pm

Thanks for responding! I never thought about filling the voids in the new plastic bailer. Did you fill the partial void between the floor and the hull? If so, what did you use? Was the area between your floor and hull filling with water before the self bailer replacement (mine is)? If so, did the replacement solve that problem?
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Re: Self Bailer for DSII replacement

Postby Tipster1 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:54 am

InterlochenDood wrote:Thanks for responding! I never thought about filling the voids in the new plastic bailer. Did you fill the partial void between the floor and the hull? If so, what did you use? Was the area between your floor and hull filling with water before the self bailer replacement (mine is)? If so, did the replacement solve that problem?


You're welcome. We may be talking past each other. To be safe, let's make sure we're talking about the same thing. Apologies if this is old news. The space between the cockpit floor ("sole") is the "bilge". This is the space you see when you open the inspection ports next to CB trunk. It is drained by lowest plug on back of boat (transom). This is the plug that MUST be closed before you launch. The bilge should not have any significant water in it other than the small amount that may leak through inspection ports when boat is at mooring and rain goes into cockpit. The cockpit drain ("Scupper") is the higher opening on the transom. It needs to be open while boat is moored so rain drains out of cockpit. Since it is still fairly low, I close it while sailing in light air. Otherwise there is back-flow into cockpit. I do check the bilges almost every time I sail and especially if I haven't been out in a while.

The bailer assembly creates a tube that runs from the cockpit sole, down THROUGH the "bilge" to below the bottom of boat. The upper end of the self bailer tube is above the cockpit sole and is sealed with rubber washer that also holds the plug. The outer unit is sealed to the bottom. There is no connection between bailer and bilge.

As I recall the O ring that came with the bailer just increased the gap between bottom piece and hull so I removed it. One blogger suggested that the O-ring adds a cushion to protect the hull. The Sunfish installation fits flat on the Sunfish bottom, unlike our situation. Searching around I found a photo of a broken bailer. No doubt, these aren't as sturdy as the original metal DesPersias.

Additional recollections (this was a year ago): When I applied epoxy past to fill gap I used a sheet of wax paper as a release agent between epoxy filler paste and hull so I didn't permanently attached bailer to hull. Then I used silicone to caulk the seam. I can't imagine water leaking past this into bilge, but that's why I check it :).

Sunfish vs DS bailer:
Image
Broken Bailer
Image


This video deals with sunfish, but may help https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93phCeCPnIU
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