DaySailer.org Forum

I have newly acquired a 1984 DS II (Anniversary Edition) that has jib tracks mounted inside the cockpit on the vertical wall about a foot back from the cuddy. The cleats themselves hang off tracks on the vertical surface in a rather odd configuration, with the cleat itself extending from the vertical surface facing forward. I am an experienced sailor with 4 decades of experience that includes racing in Lightnings, Rhodes 19's, Flying Scots and J-22's and have never seen anything like this, so I am thinking of mounting tracks on coaming, where there is a flat, maybe 1.5" surface, that runs the length of the cockpit. This would allow the cleats to be mounted in a more normal upright position parallel to the cockpit floor. (I think D&Rs jib sheet/track rig would work nicely in this configuration.) This would certainly making single-handing the boat easier, and this is how I will be sailing her most of the time. Have others done this? And if so, did you find it necessary to create a screw-in type port with in the vertical seat back wall to get access for through-bolting the track to the flat surface at the top of the coaming? Or given the load on the cleats would be athwartships/fore and aft rather than up or down, would using tapping screws in the tracks be sufficient to hold the track in place? And of course I would also love to hear any other placements of the jib tracks that was an improvement over the stock design in the DSII that I have.

Many DSIIs have the cleats on the centerboard trunk. So there would only be a block on the jib track, not a whole cleat. That's the configuration I saw when I sailed on a friend's DSII.

There's very recent post here in the forum on how to replace the jib-track backing inside the coaming. There's lots of detail there, and there are tons of older threads on this and similar topics.

The neat thing about this forum is that the topic under discussion, the DaySailer, has been around for such a long time and it's seen only limited change. So pretty much most of what you might want to do, someone has written something about it already.

Nope. Jib cleats are on the track and the track is on the vertical seat-back surface inside the cockpit. The two tracks face each other across the boat and are mounted a few inches down from the top of that vertical seat-back area. And the cleats extend outward at a 90 degree angle perpendicular to the track (!) and face forward (!) Still hoping to hear from those who have specifically moved the track to the coaming. But thanks anyway.

Here’s a picture of my 25th Anniversary Edition DS2:

I took the picture to show the door I made from a PVC panel, but you can see the jib track. Seems it matches the description from JoeCapeCod.

I have occasionally noticed the position of the jib tracks being uncomfortable, but never considered moving them... maybe I should consider that.

JoeCapeCod wrote:Nope. Jib cleats are on the track and the track is on the vertical seat-back surface inside the cockpit. The two tracks face each other across the boat and are mounted a few inches down from the top of that vertical seat-back area. And the cleats extend outward at a 90 degree angle perpendicular to the track (!) and face forward (!) Still hoping to hear from those who have specifically moved the track to the coaming. But thanks anyway.

Sorry, didn't mean to doubt your description. just wanted to point out that DSII's come in other configs as well.

The people who posted here on moving their tracks to the top of the coaming may no longer be active, or even own a DSII. But they did write up their experiences here, so you should be able to find something helpful with a bit of digging.

Unlike much of social media, the forum is not just conversation, but also an archive.

I have an "83 DS2 with the same jib tracks that you reference and I am a singlehanded sailor. I very carefully removed the cars from the tracks and bent the cars so the cleat is at a 45 degree angle rather than 90. That involves removing the fairlead while bending but no real problem. It makes it easier to release the sheet from the windward side of the cockpit.
I considered mounting a cleating arrangement on the centerboard trunk but like my rig better.
JW

I have a '74 DSII and moved the jib tracks from their original position on the vertical seat backs to the deck. My objective was solely comfort. Generally seat backs are not very comfortable when blocks protrude into ones back I did not worry about whether the modification would change performance (good or bad) or disqualify the boat from entering races. That all considered, I like the new location and have no regrets.

I'll post pics after my next visit to the water.

I have a 1982 DSII and the jib cars and cleats are on the combing. I don't race this boat but the configuration is quite convenient. Take a look.

I'm going to be contrarian (as usual) and argue that jib track placement is just fine on the inside of the COAMING, aka the seatback. But I gotta admit that I sail a DS1 (with my tracks inside the coaming), so DS2 may be just a bit different. Anyway, you should never be sitting up against the track, block, and (maybe) swivel cleat because the working set is on the lee side and you should sit to windward. As the active sheet is not in your way to windward, you slot you back beside the jib car and block just fine, no need for much contortions. Besides, if there is any sort of wind, you shouldn't be on the seat, you should be hiked out, either on top of the coaming, or on the side deck. Which makes your other two arrangements for the jib track might inconvenient, I'd sure not want to be sitting ON the jib track set on either coaming top or deck. No thanks! The only thing I'll posit in favor of moving the jib track is that it wont affect your sheeting angle (much) if you use barber inhaulers.

Overall, if the jib track on the seat back/inside the coaming really bothers you, how about mounting it atop the cuddy roof? Some folks do that, although barber inhaulers can get interesting (you'll need to rig them thru the cuddy roof itself, somehow). Different strokes for different folks....

Fair winds!

Tom

The cuddy roof is just a mite too far forward, unless you have a jib that's undersized.

Otherwise, I agree with Tom. In my case, everyone on my boat wears PFDs 100% of the time. No exceptions. So everyone's back is "padded", and tracks are not in the least bothersome.

In the track on the top configuration, there may be enough room for the crew to sit on deck forward of the track, but in conditions where the skipper also needs to sit up on deck or hike out there's not enough room to sit right next to the crew - which would be the best place from a weight distribution point (assuming your boat isn't on a plane).

Now, if you and your crew are heavy, it may be the case that you rarely if ever sail in conditions where even one of you needs to sit on deck to balance the sail force. That's fine, and I'm a firm believer in people setting up their boats to the type of sailing they do .... As long as they recognize, and everyone reading along understands that certain design decisions rest on implicit assumptions -- including about future events.

If you've rigged your boat so hiking out is difficult, you'll be miserable if you find yourself out in conditions where that is suddenly required. Say because the wind go just a bit stronger than you expected, for example. (Note that the wind speeds we are talking about here are not really "dangerous" for anyone who's graduated from their beginner, or even early intermediate learner status; most people with a bit of experience would find those conditions "exhilarating" and would consider that the fun has finally started).

Very helpful thread. Always something new. I'm curious:
Mashenden, were you able to get a photo of your setup?
JW, Mackrelman, I would love to see a picture of your jib cars after you bent them. I think I'm going to mount a Ronstan block recommended by GreenLake (single orbit block with cleat & swivel), but intrigued by the idea of adapting something I already have.

I have an 82 DSII and have the same tracks with the fairlead/cleat car. However, My cars are on the tracks the reverse of IslandFarmer (unless I misunderstood your description), so that the cleat is AFT of the fairlead and you pull to the aft of the boat to release the cleat . And I also had to bend the car so that I could actually cleat while single-handing.

Are there class rules on where the jib sheet tracks can (or more importantly) can't be placed?

I believe the short answer is "no".

The DS is unusual in its limits on constraints with regards to running rigging. Many other classes prescribe not only placement, but sometimes even the manufacturer for specific items.

For the definite answer to questions like this you need to go the DSA main site and look up the bylaws, which have a chapter on technical specs.

Some people never race their DS. In that case, adherence to class rules is only significant in terms of potential resale value. A boat that cannot be brought back into compliance will not be attractive so some future owner interested in racing.

Yeah, that's the primary issue. I'm never going to race it, honestly... but I'd like the option for myself or some other owner.

I'll just replace them with ones I managed to find... The 18" ones were out of stock, I got 4.5 feet, I'll cut them down to a foot. I went for Ronstan cars, the Harkens were like $200 each, and I'm way, way too cheap.