Leak into the bilge

[chapmro]

I am the 2-week owner of a DS2, and when we took it out for about 2 hours for the first time last week, on hauling it out, removing the bilge plug resulted in a steady stream of water for about a minute (about 5 gallons?). I don't see any obvious problem with the bottom, which leads me to consider centerboard trunk as the likely culprit (unless of course the plug was not tight; someone else inserted that plug; I'll make sure it is tight next time). There was no water in the cockpit, and none in the cuddy. Nothing is visibly wrong with the centerboard holes where the lines to raise and lower it come through, and the centerboard functions fine. I tried opening the inspection ports just aft of the cuddy, but couldn't open them with my fingers. There is a cleat on the starboard side of the centerboard trunk, and the holes for another cleat that pulled out at some point. The previous owner said he just used the one cleat and the holes were like that when he got it and it was never a problem. My question is how to find this leak. I understand the centerboard pivots around a bolt that is held by two metal pieces that screw in from the bottom of the boat and that might be the source. I understand that sometimes the fitting for the uphaul line (the wire one) sometimes breaks, allowing water into the space between the hulls. I've read about a repair procedure involving a 3/4" metal pipe cut lengthwise and some sort of threaded abs plastic piece from the hw store to replace the fitting that is supposed to keep water out. If I can get the inspection ports open, with the boat in the water at the dock, would I able to see what is happening? I have access to a boat lift but would like to figure out what is happening and what I need to do before I go asking to use the club's lift. Thanks very much!

[GreenLake]

Ideally it would be best if someone from the DS2 faction could chime in.

However, on first reading your summary makes sense. And yes, I would start with the place where the uphaul cable exits the trunk. I've sailed on a DSII and while that one did not have issues with water between the trunks, it had a lot of water gush out of that uphaul opening into the cuddy and into the cockpit from there. In your boat, if I venture a guess, the opening to the cuddy may be sealed a bit better, forcing any water into available cracks or openings between the hulls. A corroborating sign would be if this "leak" requires the boat to be in motion.

I believe that the repair you mention can be worked without dismantling the CB. You would need to access the uphaul location from within the cuddy. If I'm correct, you do not need to lift the boat from the trailer or take it out of the water.

Second guess would be a leaking CB pivot plate bolt. This leak does not require the boat to be in motion, but having a force on the CB to twist it might change the geometry to facilitate the leak (and it may be weak, or not existing, without that assistance). You should be able to view this area with the inspection ports open, and perhaps confirm visually that water is coming in that way next time you sail.

You should be able to seal these plates without fully removing the CB. It should be possible with the boat on the trailer, to loosen one side, lower it, apply suitable caulking and reassemble, then do the other side. Or you can beach your boat and tip it over (careening).

From my reading I would think that butyl tape would make a good sealant for the purpose. You would form two rings, one around each hole through the fitting and perhaps even a bit around each screw head. Butyl never gets fully hard, so you shouldn't need to worry about a crack later forming between sealant and plate. Whatever you do, don't use 3M5200 because you just make it impossible to ever remove the CB in the future.

PS: that's as good a bit of second hand advice I can give you, but I'm hoping it gets you started in a good direction, even if we don't hear from any actual DS2 owners.

[bilbo]

Mine has had the pipe nipple fix done for the centerboard control lines leak issue by the previous owner. It still leaks a little bit but it’s not bad. I’d say that much water means something is definitely off. If you can get one of the inspection ports off you could add water to the bilge with a hose when the boat is on a trailer or lift. That would hopefully help you identify leaks. Also for what it’s worth my DSIi doesn’t have the metal things, the CB is bolted through the inner trunk.

As for the cleat I only had one when I got my boat. I replaced it with two cleats, one to hold the board up and another that is self-releasing to hold it down. Now if the board hits bottom (and it does) the downhaul pops loose and the board can move up. There’s a thread somewhere here that details it; that’s what I based mine on. It’s well worth the effort in my opinion.

[chapmro]

Thanks -- I'm inclined toward the pipe nipple fix also if that is where the leak turns out to be. Could you post a photo of yours? I didn't even know the words "pipe nipple" until I started researching this problem, and I am not familiar with plumbing stuff. Looks like I want to use a 3/4" threaded metal pipe with some cuts lengthwise into the threaded end as a sort of thread tap (the lengthwise cuts let it clear the chips as it cuts threads in the fiberglass?) through both layers of fg at the uphaul hole, then thread a short 3/4" plastic nipple (is pvc ok? Does it have to be abs?) into the threads I made, with sealant on it. then screw a cap on the end that sticks into the cuddy and run the wire loop through a slot the cap. I do hope not to turn the water-in-the-bilge problem into a water-in-the-cuddy problem.

I'm going to feel around the area of the uphaul hole when I go out to the club later today, and try opening the inspection ports with a tool I made. IIRC the original plastic donut that the uphaul line passes thru is completely gone on my boat (didn't even know there was supposed to be one when I bought the boat), so I can't see how that can't be at least part of my water-in-the-bilge problem. I hadn't even realized when I bought the boat that the centerboard trunk had two layers. I don't think it did on the Spindrift Daysailer I owned 30 years ago that had the lever centerboard.

I've now bought 5 used boats in my life, and 4 of them leaked in some way when I acquired them!

[bilbo]

I'm not super familiar with the details of how the pipe nipple modification is done, I just remember reading about it on this forum. I do remember reading about the slots cut in the nipple to make a tap of sorts. It looks like mine was done with brass pipe as there's some green patina on it. See below:



If they used a cap for the line to go through it's long gone. It looks like they just screwed the pipe in, cut the end off and maybe chamfered it a bit, then called it good. The little plastic donuts, or at least I assume that's what they were, were in a baggie of parts that the PO gave me when I bought the boat. He said that baggie was given to him when he bought the boat. I've never had water in the cuddy from either of those holes. Sorry about the poor photo quality, I tried to get the pics as best I could under the cover. I hope they're helpful.

There's also a book available that I believe goes through this very procedure as well as some others. The author will email a PDF file after he receives payment. I got it a few weeks back but now can't find where I saved it. The info is in a sticky on this forum. It's $20 I believe and a good resource.

I've never seen a DSI in person, but I believe you're right. I believe those had an FRP hull and the cockpit was constructed separately from wood, so the floor was the hull of the boat. The cockpit on the DSII I believe is a separate FRP layup that is "glued" into the hull. This is my first, and only, boat so I'm no expert.

[chapmro]

Thank you so much! All I can find at my local hw stores are steel (no good) and brass, so I may be using brass. Thanks for the info about the book also!

[GreenLake]

I've never seen a DSI in person, but I believe you're right. I believe those had an FRP hull and the cockpit was constructed separately from wood, so the floor was the hull of the boat. The cockpit on the DSII I believe is a separate FRP layup that is "glued" into the hull. This is my first, and only, boat so I'm no expert.

The DS1 is single hull (except the "new" ones built after the DSII stopped production).

Those older DS1s all have wooden gratings (many people remove them) but the hull and the cockpit sole are one and the same. In other words, there is no hidden bilge and everything is accessible.

The original DS1s had wooden seats, but the later ones have FRP benches that form flotation tanks.

The other big difference is that DS1s (old and new) use a lever to operate the centerboard. That's the main difference in sailing one (and the biggest difference in maintenance). Except for details of where the jib tracks are mounted, etc. the rigging is pretty much the same (and shows the usual variations because class rules let the owners make a rather wide range of changes, unlike many other one-design boats).

Now you know.