keel moving sideways

[Ricky]

I have a 1976 Daysailer II. When I am dead in the water (no wind) and waves from speed boats come across my beam, I can hear my keel moving back and forth, starboard to port and making a clunking sound. Is this to be expected or does this indicate a problem with the keel?
Thanks, Rick

[RaleighRancher]

FWIW, I experience this in my 82 DS2 and previously in a 74 Javelin. I think it's normal.I have considered adding thick, low-friction plastic fender washers on each side of the CB pivot whenever I decide it's time to rebuild the CB cable assembly. Not sure if that would work - it may just be a matter of a 2 foot lever pivoting on an ~inch wide pivot - too much leverage to overcome.

[GreenLake]

Some movement and audible sounds are expected, in the right circumstances.

People have tried all sorts of things, like adding shims to the board or to the opening. Strips of white cutting board (PE) would be great as the stuff is practically self lubricating. Well not technically under the conditions but it is slippery.

That might help with side-to-side play. Just don't make it so tight that the board becomes hard to move.

Just note: you can't really glue this stuff (not without some prep) so best technique would be to use small self-tapping screws into the CB or the trunk wall. You'll need to recess them to prevent scratches and if you put them on the wall instead of the CB you will need to use something to screw at 90 degree angle... but, if you read old forum posts, others claim to have done it.

[Champlaner]

My ’77 DSII board has always wobbled, especially when reaching. This year it seemed to be worse. So I finally got after it.

Disclaimer—I haven’t tested my repairs yet. Will update.

Using the trailer jack method, I got the stern onto a homemade cradle then suspended the bow eye from a 4x4 post between 2 step ladders. The post I had lying around was only long enough to pull the trailer forward barely out of the way of the trunk. A 10 foot post would allow you to easily walk the trailer all the way out. I then placed and shimmed a couple jackstands—padded at the top--under the boat to team with the slung bow. This setup permitted carefully stepping into the boat center cockpit. A couple of 2x4's cut to length as gunwale supports might have helped stability. When I careened the boat years ago, I didn’t like testing the board function while it’s weighting to one side.

The bottom was about 19” above ground, so I could only lower the board about 30 degrees, but that’s roughly the loudest angle in the water. Test wobbling made it seem like the top of the board was hitting the upper trunk walls as much or more than the mid board was hitting the trunk opening. So I decided to attack both areas by shimming the upper board itself and the trunk opening. (Poke) testing shim thicknesses before dropping the board told me I wanted only 3/32” thickness on each side. So countersunk mini screws seemed impossible.

The tricky thing is that the trunk is not of uniform thickness. After dropping the board, a piece of wood ripped to barely fit in the tightest spot was great for exploring. Mine was narrower at, and forward of, the bolt spot. Not much—an area of maybe 8 sq in. So I avoided that spot, positioning shims roughly from 12 o’clock to 2 o’clock above and to the right of the bolt hole when the board is fully retracted. Those shims were kidney shaped about 6” x 3”. I glued ¾” wide by about 6” shims to the trunk entrance starting a little behind where the board sits when fully deployed (or 90 degrees).

I first flame treated and epoxied HDPE shims but was able to peel them off too easily. I had some plywood type stuff the right thickness and that worked out much better in terms of adhesion. I precoated all surfaces with epoxy to seal the ply.

And still, I wanted more haha. My board had the (roughly) ½” x 1” nylon bushing in the bolt hole and that seemed pretty loose too. Calipers showed that the inner bushing diameter was at least 17/32” (hard to tell since the caliper thickness slightly inhibits accuracy). So I bought some ½” x 1"UHMW tubing, a 33/64” drill bit, and new rubber washers. I had to creatively reduce the bushing o.d. to fit in the board, but that resulted in a press fit. I also made my bushing a tiny bit longer than the previous to help prevent the bolt from squishing the trunk. I used my test stick dimension of 1.14” at the bolt hole. The previous bushing had protruded from the board some anyway, so I figured why not use the last bit of space.

Everything went back together very nicely and the limited test functionality in the yard felt and sounded much better. The New Riders have a fun song called “15 days under the hood” –I just had to change the last word.

Took the opportunity to replace trailer bunks and rollers. Waiting for a decent sailing day to test. With an hour drive and VT weather, it’s not always simple.

[GreenLake]

great write-up. Let us know how it field tested.

[Champlaner]

All went well during Tuesday's test. Had a tiny nervous moment when I first tugged on the downhaul line and it wouldn't budge. A split second later the board dropped all the way without my help. Phew!! Performance was fantastic on the water though still a bit of knocking when downwind wit;h the board part way up. I definitely noticed the boat handling better at all board positions. Was breezy enough to douse the jib. Tacking without it was much easier/quicker than in the past. And hardly any knocking at full to medium board depths. When fully downwind I prefer no board anyway.

My goal with each modification was for improvement rather than perfection. Try not to laugh at the pix! The 4x4 is 86.5" long. Not sure if 96" would be enough to comfortably slide the trailer out all the way. But we made use of where one roller was in contact with the keel.

shimmed board.jpg (37.24 KiB) Viewed 2237 times

stern cradle.jpg (73.87 KiB) Viewed 2237 times

Hung bow.jpg (76.22 KiB) Viewed 2237 times

[GreenLake]

All went well during Tuesday's test. Had a tiny nervous moment when I first tugged on the downhaul line and it wouldn't budge. A split second later the board dropped all the way without my help. Phew!! Performance was fantastic on the water though still a bit of knocking when downwind wit;h the board part way up. I definitely noticed the boat handling better at all board positions.

That sounds like success in my book. A bit of banging in some conditions is something I hear on my DSI as well, but you probably don't want the board so tight that it no longer wants to go down.

Was breezy enough to douse the jib. Tacking without it was much easier/quicker than in the past. And hardly any knocking at full to medium board depths. When fully downwind I prefer no board anyway.

There are good reasons for that preference. Better speed is one, but also it makes it harder to capsize as the boat can't "trip" over the board. And going downwind, there's no need for lateral resistance.

My goal with each modification was for improvement rather than perfection.

I'm all for incremental improvement and personally I prefer not to make permanent changes until I know that they work out. Consequently, I have a number of jury-rigged items on my boat that have never been updated on the principle of "never disturb a working system."

Try not to laugh at the pix! The 4x4 is 86.5" long. Not sure if 96" would be enough to comfortably slide the trailer out all the way. But we made use of where one roller was in contact with the keel.

You could have launched the boat on the grass, then tipped it on its side, put something to support the keel and rotate back. The boat is not that heavy, you can even lift bow or stern manually and lever more support under it. I had my boat up on two stacks that way once inside a garage. Two or three tires in for the bow, and a stack of short 4x4 like in that wood block tower for the popular game.

We did it with three people, I believe the third person was the one adding the supports.

Whatever works.

[Champlaner]

I've careened the boat before but really wanted it flat this time to test the board wobble. I considered supporting the CB while careened but was less sure I could manage it just right. Dropping a socket in the bilge is also problematic when careened!

The board now moves more easily than before. Not surprising since everything stays in better alignment, but not expected either. I still have to head into the wind when trying to move it on the (upwind) go, just as it should be.

I've completed many serious repairs and improvements over the years thanks to GreenLake and the forum! The DSII is a really fun boat to sail even without traveller, vang, reefing etc. I just try to get the conditions right, aiming for 6 to 12 knots of wind. Dousing the jib at around 12+ knots can lead to a much more relaxed but still fast sail. It's pretty funny to watch a North Sails trim video and be saying nope, nope and nope!! Anyway I'm waiting for a calibrated robotic titanium gooseneck with AI for my next upgrade.

Stay out of the hot sun,
--Nick.

[BobbyD1]

BobbyD in New England here,

I worked as a shipwright, built my own boat, a 22 foot ClarkCraft design. Now at 75 I'm just rebuilding an unlaunched O'day. (My background)
My swing down keep also was wobbly, I took it out, realized the square hole was worn too wide. I carefully waxed the square bronze part that goes through the keel. On a bench, I put the lever down and put the keel in place. Then I squeezed a mix of epoxy and thickener into the small space between square shaft and keel. I let it harden and prayed I could separate them! It worked. Now the wobble is nearly gone. Hope I was addressing the aforementioned problem. Thanks for any input. Bob

[GreenLake]

Welcome to the forum!

If I read your description correctly, you essentially shimmed the pivot shaft with epoxy. I would be curious to hear how this stands up to a season of sailing or two. I used shim made from a silicone bronze washer in the same location and found that it is slowly becoming less effective, presumably because it slowly deforms like the original bronze part. (It's still better than before the fix).