Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby jeadstx » Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:32 pm

From what I read when the CG said they would not tow them to get the boat to bail, they requested a pump and the CG said no to that also. From the description from the boat's owner, the boat was swamped, but floating and had enough flotation on board to keep it afloat. They put the centerboard down and set an anchor with 5' of chain and 100' of line. Tim would know, but I think the water was shallow. They got out near the boat the following day, but weather was bad and they couldn't recover it, but it was still riding at anchor the way it was when the CG made them leave. The day after that, the weather improved and they went out with a bigger tow boat and found their boat missing. I read that they regret not leaving the SPOT operating on board.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby Swashbuckley » Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:37 pm

So what is the line between 'rescue' and 'salvage'. I keep reading reports of the USCG being treated like roadside AAA. Being in charge means looking beyond to unintended consequences of actions. And I apply that responsibility to both captains. Scenario - tow to bail - they hook up, start towing, one of the crew on the small boat drowns. Who gets roasted for that one. It has always been my understanding that when you call the USCG you have made that decision that your vessel is not seaworthy.
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby Alan » Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:27 pm

I'll throw this out there for whatever it may be worth: When we sail at Lake Tahoe, we have the equivalent of roadside AAA, from a private company. The Coast Guard does patrol the lake, but it's inexpensive peace of mind to have a towing service in radio range. (It came in really handy during my misspent youth driving British and Italian sports cars, but that's a subject for a different forum. :D )

Is anything like that available for the adventure sailors here?
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby Swashbuckley » Thu Mar 19, 2015 1:48 am

The simple answer is yes, BoatUS for one. The complicated one is that some areas have limited coverage from service and communication. Hence the use of Satphones and PLBs. Cost then becomes a factor cause, hey, the USCG 'usually' does not send you a bill. I am not sure I want to know what the towing charge would be from the central gulf.
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby jeadstx » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:27 pm

From what I understand on the Texas coast the towing is expensive. A Herrschoff 12.5 on the Tx200 I think in 2012 ran aground and needed a tow to get off. I heard it cost them about a $1000 and in the process the tow service destroyed the rudder putting them out of the event.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby Swashbuckley » Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:51 pm

Yikes! BTW heard the Lightning has been spotted, drug anchor. No word on recovery yet.
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby TIM WEBB » Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:24 pm

Swashbuckley wrote:The simple answer is yes, BoatUS for one. The complicated one is that some areas have limited coverage from service and communication. Hence the use of Satphones and PLBs. Cost then becomes a factor cause, hey, the USCG 'usually' does not send you a bill. I am not sure I want to know what the towing charge would be from the central gulf.

Nor should they send you a bill, since we as taxpayers "pre-pay" them to do the job that they exist for, and that is to protect our maritime borders, and help people in distress on the water. Period. That help can be anything from a simple tow to a full on rescue with boat abandonment. I do not know why they refused to offer a tow in this particular case, but I suspect it was because, as you stated, they had already requested that the event be cancelled, and the boat in question had continued. So, they got a bug up their butt and refused to help ...
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby Alan » Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:27 pm

Hmmmm.

Not that Lake Tahoe is going to have enough water for my favorite launch ramp this year, but just in case it does, I pay $67 to BoatUS for annual Tahoe-only coverage. As I understand it, includes at least one free tow. I talked to them last year and they assured me that yes, they would come and tow me back from Emerald Bay to Meeks Bay, and the cost was covered by my insurance payment. That and a marine VHF radio add up to inexpensive peace of mind.

That's a very different story from being way the heck out in big water, but from what I've read of their prices and services, it might be worthwhile to pay for theirs or another company's big-water towing insurance, even if it costs more than what I pay. Or maybe no one insures events like the Everglades Challenge?
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby Swashbuckley » Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:06 pm

Tim, Arizona and New Hampshire are two of a handful of states that have laws on the books to recover rescue costs if they so desire. I am very glad that Texas does not. But high profile rescue events that burn taxpayer dollars will cause more to pursue this path. Especially when the taxpayer perceives that the rescue is avoidable. Like skiers who cross the 'Out of Bounds' markers, boaters who disregard the Coast Guard rules, and motorists who drive around road closure barriers. Operations budgets are finite.
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby TIM WEBB » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:35 am

I was at a WCTSS event this weekend, and a number of folks were there who were also at the EC. None were any of the folks who were rescued. The general consensus among them was that yes, Chief should notify the CG of the event, but in this case, even if he had, it would not have changed the CG's ultimate decision to ask the organizers to stop the event.
Tim Webb
1979 DS2 10099 The Red Witch
(I used to be Her "staff", in the way dogs have owners and cats have staff, but alas no longer ... <pout>)
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby jeadstx » Mon Mar 23, 2015 6:00 pm

I read today that the Lightning has been recovered. It drifted about 12 NM from where it had been left, apparently it's anchor line had been cut.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Location: Dripping Springs, Tx

Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby Swashbuckley » Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:39 am

Thanks for the update guys. Glad the boat was recovered.
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby talbot » Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:19 pm

These accounts of the Tx200 and EC are invaluable, particularly if we can get first-person narratives.

A lot of mods to my own boat have been made after reading these accounts. My most recent was reinforcing my rudder head to avoid John Albrecht's Tx200 experience some years ago. (I had forgotten the Tx200 rudder debacle until last summer when we were coming ashore in tidal waters and the current pushed us sideways into the gravel beach. I thought, this reminds me of something . . . )

I really appreciate all the hard-earned experience of others that lets me spend my winters doing "modifications" rather than "repairs."
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby jeadstx » Mon Apr 13, 2015 12:37 pm

Thanks for the comment Talbot (last name is Alesch, not Albrecht in case anyone is looking for my articles). Tim Webb has a lot of good info as well from the Florida 120 and the coastal cruising with the WCTSS on the west coast of Florida. I believe he is developing a rudder head that is an improvement over mine for dealing with shallow waters. I know Tim has posted his cockpit tent.

I was hoping we would get some comment from the DS that capsized on the 2015 EC.

On the Tx200 this year there are currently two DS IIs registered and there might be a third. Their insights into distance sailing the Day Sailer should provide some good input as well.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: Day Sailers in 2015 Everglades Challenge

Postby talbot » Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:06 pm

Oops. Sorry about the name glitch.
After seeing my rudder jammed in the gravel, I considered your approach of upgrading to an aluminium-frame Rhodes rudder.
I decided instead to go cheap, laminating a couple of oak plates to either side of the head, plus rigging my own lift/downhaul lines. The boat is out a the lake now, but next time we're out there, I'll take a picture of my Frankenrudder. Interested to see what other mods come out of Lake Tahoe.
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