What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby Breakin Wind » Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:21 pm

Great feedback here!!!

A couple follow-ups on my own post...

10. Once you put your boat in the water…
I should have been clearer, no "planned" projects get done... some of you may recall that I spent most of last winter starting a couple dozen projects and I came into this summer with the image in my mind of spending days at a time on my boat tied to the dock finishing up the big list of projects. Didn't happen... if I was at the lake with time to spend on my boat, it was untied and I was out in the lake.
I did certainly come up with some "gotta do" things to repair and resolve over the summer, but none of them was on my "planned" working list. I guess in that sense, it's a good thing that winter comes around (bite my tongue!) so I can finish some of those projects.

9, 8, 7 nothing additional to add

6. When in doubt… reef first, ask questions later.
My used sails came with one reef point, and after I almost laid the boat on it's side with my wife in it (see #2 below) a couple people on this site suggested that it's a lot easier to shake out a reef if you don't need it, than it is to put one in on the water when its suddenly clear you needed one.
That experience scared the heck out of me enough that I've taken a very conservative approach to reefing now. That'll probably last until I start getting cocky and then will experience another similar event, and I'll get conservative again.

5. Roller furling the jib is the only way to go!
I used the pull down line for most of the summer, but since I dock my boat, it's so much faster for me to roll out the jib than to unpack, attach, sail, repack etc. That alone made it a good choice for me. Also, I'd gone through a very bad gybe experience (basically did a 360) where the jib had wrapped all the way around my forestay and I couldn't get it back around or down, and way too windy to go out on the foredeck singlehanded. That was the day I'd forgotten the centerboard in a high wind and was doing everything I could just to keep the boat upright... With furling, if that were to happen again, I could just pull the sheets to bring it back around (I assume).

Today I was sailing in about 10-12 mph winds (I can't do knots yet) with 20 mph gusts coming straight toward my dock. To come in, I just hove to a couple hundred feet out, dropped the main & strapped it down, then rolled in the jib (it doesn't care about wind direction for furling) and motored to my dock. So very much easier than trying to maintain an upwind heading into a strong wind single handed, while pulling down the jib, then dropping the main.

Side note, I built one of those PVC pipe furlers and it works fantastic. Could not be happier with it (maybe $25 in parts). Also, since you didn't ask, I did not go through the hassle of sewing on a Sunbrella edge, instead I made a jib sock out of leftover fabric from my sail cover project and that too works perfectly.

4. How to heave to… finally! (it only took all summer to figure it out)
I read a book on single handed sailing, and it had some very good descriptions and diagrams, including a very easy to follow series of instructions for heaving to. What I had been missing was to release the mainsheet and to actually give a little more jib sheet on the backwind side so that the jib cups more (grabs more wind). I used it today when motoring out from the dock against a moderate head-wind. I rolled out the jib first, hove to, raised the main (with the reef in) and converted to a tack... I tried it again mid-sail just to try it in some larger wind conditions, and as I said above, used it also to drop sails coming back in with the wind blowing toward the dock. I think I expected the boat to stall at some fixed angle and drift sideways, but what I get is more of a "s" path as the jib grabs air and tries to turn with the wind, the forward motion against the rudder turns the bow back into the wind. As I said, it's not what I expected, but it's very stable and seems to work all the time in almost any wind.

3. Never – ever take your wife our for her first sailing experience on a windy day when you don’t know what you are doing…. (sigh)
Unfortunately, although I've learned what I did wrong and have corrected those errors, it will be quite a while I think before she'll try that again. Maybe on a dead calm day we can go out with the trolling motor... no sails... bummer...

2. Tacking is waaay easier then Gybing!
I tried gybing again today, and I guess it's not that bad. I just don't care for the quick slap of the boom, and the need to let it out so fast. I need to do a bunch more of them to get my confidence up. Tacking progress up the lake is so much slower that I get a lot more experience tacking so I guess that's why I'm more comfortable with it.

Thanks again all for the follow-up comments. Very interesting stuff.

- Scott
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Postby GreenLake » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:22 am

A nautical mile is about 15% longer, so knots are about 15% lower. so 12mph is just upwards of 10knots and 20mph is about 17-18kt. The nice thing about knots is that they convert easily to/from the metric system many weather data are expressed in. 1m/sec is about 2 knots.

Nice observations on heaving to.

The trick on gybing is to bring the main in before making the turn, followed by a smooth, but quick release (no slamming). If you pull in the mainsheet to bring the main in, that has the advantage that you won't have loose loops of it hanging up on the stern cleats, motor, or corners of the boat (if you have the bridle traveler, that is). The downside is that it's a bit of a pull.

Some people, esp with center boom steering, where there is a purchase between CB trunk and boom, just grab the mainsheet at below the center boom block to bring in the main that way and ease it over that way.

Now, if you are trying to gybe from reach to reach you make your life easier if you first turn a bit until you sail nearly downwind, then make a very small angle gybe, just enough to bring the main over, and only then continue the turn until you are at a reach. Instead of doing it all at once.

There's also the business that you might want to steer a bit of an S curve as part of the gybe - that should steady the boat. May be less of an issue with the DS than with some livelier dinghies, but see if it does something for you.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Postby Lil Maggie » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:35 am

GreenLake wrote:The trick on gybing is to bring the main in before making the turn, followed by a smooth, but quick release (no slamming). If you pull in the mainsheet to bring the main in, that has the advantage that you won't have loose loops of it hanging up on the stern cleats, motor, or corners of the boat (if you have the bridle traveler, that is). The downside is that it's a bit of a pull.

++1
Some people, esp with center boom steering, where there is a purchase between CB trunk and boom, just grab the mainsheet at below the center boom block to bring in the main that way and ease it over that way.


my preferred method...sometimes I take up enough mainsheet to make sure the boom doesn't slam against the shroud on the gybe
A crappy day sailing is better than a good one at home...
DS 1 #2313
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Re: What I learned my second year if sailing.

Postby Breakin Wind » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:28 pm

Top 10 things I learned this year (in my second year of sailing)

10- Regardless of what the calendar says, spring comes to Minnesota when it's darned good and ready, and no amount of wishing (or shaking your fist and cursing) will melt the ice any faster.

9.- Same as last year, not-withstanding best intentions, once the boat is in the water, sailing starts, and boat projects stop!

8- A bilge pump turned what could have been a very bad first sail after launching into just an embarrassing one! (forgot to put in the bilge drain plug)

7- Hat overboard drills are really important to practice for the days you wear the wrong one on the boat and it blows off. That experience does however reinforce how important it is for everyone on-board to wear a PFD. It takes a really long time to circle back around to recover a hat or a crew member should it become necessary. And it's "really really" hard to recover a hat on a blowy day when single handing it.

6- When heading out through a channel into a strong straight-in-to-shore wind, it works best to use your trolling motor to back the boat out into the lake. It looks strange to those on shore, and you get some wave slap over the transom, but sure works better than trying to drive bow into the wind.

5- People fishing, or just partying on their boats, in front of your dock or boat landing, don't seem to realize (or care) how hard it is for a sailboat to circle, waiting for them to get the message and "move please!" Maybe a serious cruise ship sized air horn should be added to my Christmas list this year.

4- Adding a ratchet block to the main sheet makes the line feel really odd when you've become used to keeping a death grip on the uncleated main sheet in high winds. But it's a "good" odd feeling, and way easier on the fingers.

3- There must be a rule somewhere, that states "if you're on shore doing busy-work, just waiting for the wind to come up so you can sail, when it finally picks up, by the time you get freed up from your project, the boat and yourself ready, untied and out on the lake, it's calm again".

2- Gybing is no-where near as scary (or hard) this year as I thought it was last year.

1- And the #1 thing I learned in my second season of sailing... It takes "at least" a full year (and counting) for my wife to get over her bad first sailing experience (my-fault, early in my first year, almost dumped us, took in water, I know... I know....) and to be willing to go out to try it again. (Sigh)

And so begins the countdown to my third year of sailing... Let see, 183 days until April 15th (normal ice out date for our lake)...
wow... that's a really long time! - Scott
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby GreenLake » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:02 pm

Nice summary. And great progress.

For the powerboats, I'm not afraid to point straight at them and then yell "no reverse in this thing". That usually does the trick. It's not 100% true, there are ways to sail backwards, but not with the wind from behind...
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby jeadstx » Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:59 pm

On the hat thing, add a stampeded strap, attach one end to your shirt, hat recovery is much improved. I've lost three hats in the Laguna Madre on the Tx200.

GL is right, yelling "no reverse" can at times be effective. Snagging fishing lines on a centerboard can also leave a lasting impression.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby GreenLake » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:38 pm

Used to have a hat that had a little clip with which you could fix it to your PDF or shirt collar. Never lost that one and had it until it disintegrated.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby Alan » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:44 pm

My crew made us hat leashes out of spring-loaded electrical test clips and narrow ribbon. Similar to GL's retainer, except that you can move them from hat to hat.
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby GreenLake » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:46 pm

Scott, I took the time to re-read most of this topic again from your first post. Really nice log of your progress. I don't think I can pinpoint as precisely the steps I went through at first. All I know is that, after many years of puzzling things out for myself, I went and joined a group of people that were doing the kind of Wednesday night fun races. Suddenly, I felt like I was starting all over again :).

So, good luck and to continued progress next season!!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby Breakin Wind » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:47 pm

Thanks GL

I have learned so much this past 26 months, but it's like building your first shed or garage. When first starting out, you know you want to build it yourself, but don't know anything about footings, floors, walls, roofs or finishing. If you're mechanically inclined, you can look at how other buildings were built, and try to see figure how to apply that to your project. It can seem pretty daunting, but eventually you come across someone who's actually built one before and they give you some basic advice which you follow to the best of your ability to understand it. If they live close by, maybe they're happy to come over and help or give real time pointers. If not, you work with them remotely and hopefully you understand what you're being told. Eventually, you get some sort of foundation down, maybe not the best, but it seems level and so you start framing the walls. That seems to go pretty fast, once you figure out one section, and you just keep repeating what you did all the way around. There are some bad nails and some slightly off center boards, but it looks OK if you don't get too close and hey! it's your first time right? Eventually you get to the roof and you have to stop again to figure out trusses and roofing. Same materials you've used before, but applied in a whole lot different way.

I think I'm at the 2 x 4 part of sailing right now. During my first winter working on the boat I didn't know a halyard from a stemhead. A sheet goes on the bed and a block was something you put in front of the trailer tire so it didn't roll. Last summer, I' somehow managed to get the foundation down, maybe not perfect, but from all the input here, I understand what things are, and why it's done the way it's done. This year it seems like it's gone a lot easier and faster. Last year, after that early scary experience that my wife won't let me forget, I was a lot more tentative and careful. I managed not to get knocked down so it must've worked, but this year my approach was so different. Last year I'd use rounding up as a safety valve to depower quickly. This year, I found myself pulling against the tiller to avoid rounding up and at least leaning out over the rail. Still not at all comfortable with the concept of hiking out, but that will come too I'm sure.

My wife and i share our lake lot (duplex) with another couple who are very into fishing and not really excited about sailing. My most embarrassing moments are when they will have some company out to the lake, and maybe someone has sailed (even a little) before. My friend will introduce me as an expert sailer and suggest we go out for a spin on my boat. It's those times I realize that I know absolutely nothing about sailing other than how to not fall over. Fortunately that day, it was calm and we weren't able to go out. After reflecting on my hesitation, my plan for next time he's at the lake, I'm going to take him aside, explain my level of experience-lack and ask him to go out with me and show me how to do things right. Sort of obvious, but I didn't realize how self conscious and inadequate I felt about my lack of experience. Especially when the expectations are being set so high.

Anyway, not sure if there is a moral or point here someplace other than again to thank the regulars on this board. I enjoy sailing so much now, I could not imagine not doing it, but I could not possibly have learned to enjoy it without Kokko and Skippa providing my initial local support, and all of you on the forum helping remotely to build that foundation.

Thanks all - greatly appreciated! - Scott
Last edited by Breakin Wind on Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby GreenLake » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:51 pm

I had the great fortune of having a near endless supply of people crazy enough and willing to go out on the water with me, almost all without any prior experience on their part. The only ones I've really disappointed were some friends who keep visiting during a time of year with fluky and feeble winds. Every time we ended up being becalmed. :lol:

When it comes to sailing with people who are experienced, the first thing you'll find that everybody has different experience. It's really not the case that there is some single, linear or logarithmic scale of "sailing expertise" and you can sort everyone along that line as by height. You may already know things about your boat, or your lake, that even a pretty good sailor used to different conditions doesn't know as well.

A few years after I bought my very first sailboat (not a DS, about 1/2 the size), I suggested to someone who had sailed on yachts on the West Coast of Scotland (not the world's tamest sailing area) to take out my little boat. She and another guy promptly capsized it less than 30' from shore (in a gentle 5 knot breeze). Her experience didn't translate, because it most likely it involved letting the keel worry about keeping the boat upright and the skipper worry about setting the parameters like sail plan, trim and course.

So she (and the other guy) did something that I didn't think was "possible" because I, as a rank beginner, had never managed it. :shock:

Now, when I sail with people, I always casually "interview" them, to find out what they have done, where and when. I also pay close attention to how quickly they "get" how a DS is set up (even similar sized boats may have rather different ways to right halyards, sheets or center board). Or I solicit advice on sail trim. Like a good magician, I may or may not use their suggestions. 8)

Over the years, I learned a lot from others that are more experienced (or that had different experience and therefore a different take on things). I've also made the space to let people new to sailing contribute whatever came naturally to them. (This includes kids and teens). Some were content to be passengers, some quickly got the tiller, others were happier to be "in charge" of the jib sheets. I usually position myself so that I can switch to "single-handing" at a moment's notice...

You've reached a point where you've peeled the first layer of this particular onion. That doesn't mean you don't get to learn from others any more (quite the contrary, much more of what you hear and read will actually make sense from now on), but it does mean that the chance that a random acquaintance will be able to sail your boat on your lake better than you can, in all circumstances, has gotten a lot smaller. So, no need to be apologetic any longer. You'll always politely demur and protest that you really barely now starboard from centerboard, while demonstrating to your passenger that you are quite capable of getting your boat to do what you want it to. If they are up to it, let them take the tiller, watch what they are doing, ask them their suggestions on sail trim if they do seem experienced, but be ready to lean in and take over, should their experience not translate to what's needed to handle your boat safely.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby jeadstx » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:07 pm

I was lucky when I learned to sail, my dad taught me on an O'Day Mariner he bought. Solid and stable boat. He was a very good sailor and would push the limits often. I wish I was as good of a sailor as he was. At 92 he would still sail if my mother would let him. After about 10 years of sailing during college and after, I got away from it to play with horses doing battle re-enactments for over 20 years. Then I decided it was time to get back into sailing. I bought my Day Sailer II. I hadn't forgotten too much, but I definately didn't move about the boat as well as I had when I was younger. I'm glad I got back into sailing because I always enjoyed it.

In 2009 I found out about the Tx200. In 2010 I made my first attempt at sailing the event. I wasn't very well prepared and only made it half way. The boat did great, I just didn't. I have had successful Tx200 events in 2011, 2012, and 2013 and I'm in current preparation for 2014. This last year (2013), I was fortunate to have someone crew with me that was a better sailor than I was. I learned many good things from his input. A week later I had the opportunity to sail with Talbot (from this forum) when he came to central Texas for a conference. I met him at Canyon Lake and we sailed my boat for a couple hours. He is a better sailor than me also. Breakin Wind, it is good to go out with sailors better than you are and don't feel bad when you find they are better at it than you, learn from them. They may find that you may have something they can learn from as well.

Two things I learned about sailing, you never stop learning new skills in sailing, and you never stop trying to improve your boat.

John
1976 Day Sailer II, #8075 - Completed the 2011, 2012, and 2013 Texas 200
1952 Beetle Boat Swan Catboat
Early Rhodes 19
1973 Mariner 2+2, #2607 - Completed 2014, 2015 and 2016 Texas 200
1969 Day Sailer I, #3229
Fleet 135; Canyon Lake, Texas
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby ChrisB » Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:33 am

I came across the following quote yesterday. It could go in the "Misc" section but also applies here. It was not attributed to a particular author. Sage advice for the seasoned sailor and the neophyte as well.

"It is infinitely easier to shake out a reef when one is bored, than it is to try to tie one in when one is scared."
Chris B.
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby K.C. Walker » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:02 am

jeadstx wrote:
Two things I learned about sailing, you never stop learning new skills in sailing, and you never stop trying to improve your boat.

John

So true!
KC Walker, DS 1 #7002
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Re: What I learned my first summer of sailing...

Postby GreenLake » Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:03 pm

It's an oft-quoted number. To get skilled at something, you need to put in 10,000 hours.
I know, I've not put in that many hours into sailing, not even if I count reading about sailing or spending time on this forum.
Yet, I've definitely made progress.
What gives?

Click for a clue.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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