Round up and then what?

Moderator: GreenLake

Round up and then what?

Postby Breakin Wind » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:17 pm

Greetings all,

I think I may have had my best sailing day today (Labor day) that I can remember. The wind was just between gentle and moderage breeze on the Beaufort scale (8-10 knts) but steady, which has been pretty much uncommon so far this year. Because of school starts and other activities, our weekend guests bailed early, and i had a good part of the day unexpectedly unclaimed so I got to go out and play for 3-4 hours!

Our lake is still small, but the breeze from the north was great for running to the south end of the lake, and then tacking back into the wind. I know I've read this before, and I understand the principals of it, but it constantly surprises me I get my best speeds when close hauled. Or maybe it just seems that way because I'm feeing the appaent wind, but I'm certain I got up on plane a couple times today just off the wind. I'd watch my windex and as I move from a close reach to close hauled, I'd feel the boat start heal sharply and then the speed really kick up.

But that brings me to my question(s) of the day. I don't know anything about tuning the mast rake other than what I've read here, and for the most part I've been happy with the handling of my boat. But today when running close hauled, as more wind came on, the boat wants to round up hard. I had to keep a lot of pressure on the tiller to keep off the wind. In the past, I've been comfortable using the rounding up as a safety net in case I'm not so fast on the mainsheet, rounding up depowers and gets things back to a safer condition. As I'm getting much more comfortable using the mainsheet as a throttle (love the ratchet block) I'm wondering if I should make some adjustments to ease the weather helm a litte.

1- Again I know I've read this, but what do I want to change, to decrease weather helm, or don't I want to do that? Is strong weather helm a good thing? I've got that adjustable foot thing (jdoorly special #32) that would allow me to move the mast foot forward/back in 1/4" or so increments, or do you just change the mast bend with the shroud adjustments?

2- When a boat rounds up... What happens if I do nothing? I wasn't comfortable trying it today, but in theory, if the boat wants to turn into the wind, what happens once it gets there? I assume the sails would stall, the boat would start to push back and eventually turn out of the weather, the sails would catch in a non-specific, unplanned manner and maybe head towards a knock-down depending on the wind? Or is that too dramatic?
And I suppose 2a- If one does find oneself nose into a stronger wind and stalled, what is the good/better/best recovery if it's not just fall off and wait to see if something to happens or doesn't...

Not sure, but again, I wasn't comfortable trying it to see. I'd rather ask... I'm sure somebody here has experienced that before so I don't have to...

Thanks - Scott
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Re: Round up and then what?

Postby ChrisB » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:06 am

Scott,

Your rig should be tuned to give you a fairly neutral helm in the conditions (wind velocity) in which you usually sail. If your helm is balanced on most sailing days, you should use other techniques to prevent rounding up on windy days. Rounding up (or using a lot of rudder angle to prevent it) is not a good thing. Rudder angle is drag and decreases boat speed. In a sudden round up, you run the risk of turning through the wind and tacking unexpectedly. In this situation, you could find yourself sitting on the new "low side" of the boat with the jib backwinded (not a good situation). As the wind increases, try some of these methods.

First, move to the rail. If you don't have a tiller extension/hiking stick and a comfortable way to sit on the railing, come up with one. I'm a big guy and I probably spend 80% of my sailing time on the railing. If you are sailing on a gusty day, learn to read the water and "see" the increases in the wind. The water gets darker in a gust as new ripples are generated. Turn the boat into the wind slightly during puffs to luff the main and the jib a little and depower the boat. You don't want to turn completely into the wind, just enough to keep the boat moving well yet under control. If the wind speed is fairly steady and you are still rounding, ease the mainsheet to luff the main a bit when sailing upwind. I frequently have the first 1/4 of the mainsail luffing on upwind legs. If you're luffing the main and are still having Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, you need to put a reef in the mainsail. Keep in mind that the ideal sail area for any boat on a beam reach will be too much sail area for the same boat on the same day when sailing close hauled. I have crewed on racing keelboats where we would reef the main for the upwind leg, then shake it out for the reaches and runs, and put the reef back in for the next upwind leg.

Chris
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Re: Round up and then what?

Postby rnlivingston » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:51 pm

Monohull sailboats are natural weathervanes. Take you hand off the tiller and the boat will head into the wind. In light air (3-6mph) you should not feel any weather helm but the boat should slowly round up into the wind if you let go of the tiller. If you feel you have too much weather helm, you want to rake your mast slightly forward. Now as the wind increases, the power pocket in the sail moves aft increasing weather helm. A Cunningham will help to reduce this by tightening the luff. As mentioned before, you can let the sails out or reduce sail (reef).

As far as what happens when you round up, the boat will usually stay headed into the wind and probably move backwards. If this happens you can push you tiller over and back around off the wind. Word of caution. In rough seas and shifty winds, your boat could quickly land on another unanticipated tack, so it is always a good idea to let the sails out until you get on a new tack.
Roger Livingston
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Re: Round up and then what?

Postby GreenLake » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:50 pm

Before looking at the mast rake as the only adjustment, are you confident that you've adjusted / trimmed your sails for the conditions?

How much outhaul are you applying? Do you use a Cunningham? Are you sheeting your main too hard? Not sheeting your jib enough?
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Round up and then what?

Postby Breakin Wind » Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:14 pm

GreenLake wrote:Before looking at the mast rake as the only adjustment, are you confident that you've adjusted / trimmed your sails for the conditions?

How much outhaul are you applying? Do you use a Cunningham? Are you sheeting your main too hard? Not sheeting your jib enough?


Those are very good questions GL and I'm nearly certain the answer is... Hmmm... I'm not sure...

Falling back to ChrisB's comments about having the rigging set up for nominal conditions, I'd have to say I am very happy with how my boat handles 95% (or more) of the time, and I really didn't have any significant issues this past weekend either. It's just the first time I've really had the opportunity to repeatedly go up and down the lake in a steady and firm wind where I could try various things and note a difference. Usually it's a blow here, a gust there and then it falls off to a wafting breeze. It's hard to find a pattern anywhere in that mess.

Not-withstanding, I'll start site searching here for those keywords and read up on the suggestions and experiences. I'm significantly less afraid of tipping over this year, which means I'm starting to push it harder and therefore the boat is handling different than when I'm just cruising amiably, and it's new ground (water) for me, but fun.

Thanks guys for all the inputs! As always, greatly appreciated!

Scott
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Re: Round up and then what?

Postby Baysailer » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:26 pm

Scott,

I think that one of the easiest to follow and understand for tuning is Doyle sails tuning guide. Certainly not out of line with what other replies are especially Rogers. To add to his post you should definitely get comfortable with backwinding the sail and reverse drive the rudder to get out of irons.

http://www.doylesails.com/onedesign/day ... uning.html

Fred
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Re: Round up and then what?

Postby ChrisB » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:28 am

Scott,

The article on the link below always makes a good read. While this was written for a different boat, and you weren't exactly sailing in "heavy air", the techniques described in the capsize prevention section apply to any boardboat and need to be instinctive once the wind speed jumps into the middle teens and higher.

http://www.hamptononedesign.com/the-boa ... t-handling

Chris
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