Trolling motors

[VTDS2]

Let's talk trolling motors. I know this has come up in other threads but I'm curious to hear from people who have used trolling motors as their non-sail propulsion option.
What did you like, what bothered you?
What level of thrust did you use?

Thanks!

[GreenLake]

I've used a 40# trolling motor for many years and am now using the one reviewed in this forum thread (EP Carry Review). I measured the thrust from that motor with a hand scale at the dock and its the same (within limits of accuracy). I also get roughly the same speed out of both (with slight advantage to the EP Carry). The latter wins, by miles in both weight of the motor and battery something that I find makes a huge difference. One of the reasons it can do that, is that it's engineered to deliver the same thrust at 1/3 the electricity consumed. It will go on its battery for 60 mins whereas I usually got only 40min out of the lead acid battery for the trolling motor, before hitting the 50% discharge limit.

Because from a thrust and speed level, these two options are near equivalent, I invite you to read that review in terms of which usage scenarios work well for a motor this size.

Going to 55# (in my view) is unlikely to make a huge difference: resistance in the water begins to increase quickly past the 3.5kn mark, and the curve becomes ever steeper. That's why adding 33% more thrust will not add 33% more speed; perhaps a fraction of a knot, if you are lucky.

Trolling motors are dirt cheap; the one I had was saltwater rated and appears as good as new (did change the propeller to one supposedly better if used as an outboard replacement).

What I like about these as power options is that they remain secondary to the sail power. In almost all conditions other than flat calm, I'm happy to sail and I won't have an urge to motor instead, because it's rarely faster. So, a true auxiliary engine, if you will. They are not strong enough to overcome any significant tidal currents, but those are predictable, and can be planned around. They are not strong enough to motor against very strong winds, although I've tried with some success to hold head to wind to take sails down when overpowered (return was downwind, most of which I eventually sailed under jib).

Trolling motors are not as heavy as the gas option (ignoring the batteries which you can store near the mast). You'll have to run a long cable (nice diameter, too). Can be done.

Something like the EP Carry is lighter (with battery) than the trolling motor alone. And more and more, that's become the deciding factor for me.

My trolling motor required two hands to lower and lock in. Also had to lean partially over the transom to do it. EP Carry by contrast is a simple push/pull on the control rod/tiller. That better fits the purpose of an auxiliary on a sailboat: having a motor on standby that you deploy immediately and from close to your seating position while sailing.

When not using the motor to dock (either one), it's usually set to some speed, turned straight and I steer with the regular tiller. However, in close quarters, the extra long control rod on the EP Carry means I'm not forced to sit fully at the transom to operate it.

In a way, now that I know there's an alternative, I see these things as shortcomings of the trolling motor design.

However, from the point of view of what the motor does to move the boat, I've found the power level/thrust/speed of a trolling motor (or EP Carry) have served me well.

That's subjective because it depends on sailing area and other circumstances. For example, I don't need to go down a long canal every time I want to go sailing. In that case, I might want a beefier outboard (electric or gas) so I could maximize the time in open water. Also, I don't go on extensive exploration with the boat in windless bays, rivers or lagoons. Some people do.

[VTDS2]

Thanks Greenlake for that helpful info.

My budget definitely keeps me in the trolling motor or outboard camp.
I had picked up an old 2 stroke, 4hp gas outboard initially but I'm already frustrated by the smell, sound, and mechanical troubles I've encountered.

I sail on Lake Champlain, so there is the possibility of ending up in a windless bay or otherwise needing to 'motor' for a longer distance than desired. That said, keeping a spare charged battery down by the mast may be more appealing to me than keeping my outboard.

[GreenLake]

If you are fine making it home at around 3knots or a bit less, a double battery trolling motor system is your ticket for the medium distance. Especially if you can leave the batteries in the boat while charging. And if you can position them near the mast (or, failing that, right in front of the seats on an older DS1). Keeping the batteries topped off over the winter (and recharged promptly during the summer) is about the extent of maintenance, which is a big win over any number of stroke outboards. Trolling motors are slightly more quiet than the EP Carry I have now, because of the immersed motor. So that's a plus, in addition to price.

As I wrote, I used a system like that for many years, and it was perfectly adequate.

Your "extension cord" to the front needs to be of a fairly hefty gauge to prevent loss of voltage. Much beefier than the tail that's on the motor itself. I manually attached the batteries, but a battery selector switch would make that easier. (If you create a battery box, that's a nice place to mount the switch). Also allows you do "depower" the system at the battery, so if anything goes wrong with the cable run you're able to disconnect at that end).

Several people on this forum (not least Tom and myself) really love the way the EP Carry is put together; but we have made room in our budget for it, and that's not everybody's thing.

In my view, the only reason to go for a traditional outboard is if you must traverse really long stretches at (higher) speeds. For against much winds or river currents for shorter distance one of the more powerful electric outboards would do, but that also raises the budget issue. Those would be my choice if I needed that much power. I'm done with gas engines unless there's no alternative (yet) for some scenario.

For your trolling motor, you may be able to rig a solar panel for either trickle charging the batteries when not in use, or also for recharging after use (if you are a weekly boater). For daily use, I see no scenario that avoids hooking up a charger to a larger system. That's where the EP carry would have an advantage, as it uses so much less electricity. However, solar chargers are still in the future (as I can't keep the battery in the boat).

[MikexB]

I am a new DSII owner and bought a new trolling motor and battery. I got the Minn Kota C2 30lb thrust, 30in shaft, and an Everstart 135ah marine battery. They cost $93 and $80, respectively, at Walmart. I have run it for over 2hrs (on 4/5 power) without exhausting it. The motor weighs 17lbs and the battery weighs 45lbs. I keep the battery in the well just inside the transom. It is easy to lift in/out when the boat is on the trailer. The motor is easy to mount/dismount and easy to raise/lower. It has a telescoping control handle. It is very quiet. I am pleased with how it performs.

I can't provide a sophisticated comparison like GreenLake. Heck, I can't provide any comparison because this is my first boat and first experience with a trolling motor!

Hope that helps!

Mike

[VTDS2]

Thanks, Mike, that is actually helpful!
My local small engine guy fixed my 80s outboard for $40 this week, so I am going to stick with it for the rest of this year.
Next year I may sell it and go for the simplicity of the trolling motor, that is, if I don't find myself running the outboard too often this year.

[MikexB]

On a related note, I am a Daysailer trailer sailor (say that 3x fast!). The ramp that I use is in a cove with tall trees and irregular breezes. I use the motor between the ramp and the open lake. I transport the rudder, motor, sails, and battery in the trunk of my car. I usually put the battery on a smart charger (Battery Tender) after I return from the lake and leave it on until the next outing.

VTDS2, it sounds like you've got it covered for this year without spending a lot of cash. That's great!

Mike

[GreenLake]

I am a new DSII owner and bought a new trolling motor and battery. I got the Minn Kota C2 30lb thrust, 30in shaft, and an Everstart 135ah marine battery. They cost $93 and $80, respectively, at Walmart. I have run it for over 2hrs (on 4/5 power) without exhausting it. The motor weighs 17lbs and the battery weighs 45lbs. ...

Mike,

Welcome to the forum.

I used to get 80min out of 160Ah combined with a 40# trolling motor. Draws about 1A, if I recall, so I figured I would be at the 50% discharge limit after that time. It's been a while. I did that on full 5/5 power and with slightly more thrust, so the numbers may work out in your case and the 120mins may be in the safe zone. But you'd want to make sure that you don't run a lead-acid battery completely down. Even a "deep discharge". They tend to not like that and it will reduce the life time.

On the plus side, if you go slower, your drag will be lower, taking less power/distance and your current draw will be lower, not only making it take longer until the battery is at the discharge limit, but also increasing the effective Ah above that limit. That's due to something called the Peukert effect which means you get more total energy out of a battery if you "sip" than if you "gulp".

According to the guy that builds them, my current motor draws about 1/3 the watts, or 1/6 the current (because it runs on 24V not 12V). On a 9.6Ah Lithium Battery I can go 60 min. Because the Li Battery allows full discharge, and is not limited to 50%, I would need to have 12 times the capacity in lead-acid for the trolling motor with the larger power draw. Comes out to ~10*12 or 120Ah which is right what my experience with the trolling motor gave me (one minute per two Ah).

And I think the total weight (incl. battery) is about what your motor weighs. Maybe a few pounds more, but thereabouts.

However, the price/pound is way higher

[GreenLake]

On a related note, I am a Daysailer trailer sailor (say that 3x fast!). The ramp that I use is in a cove with tall trees and irregular breezes. I use the motor between the ramp and the open lake. I transport the rudder, motor, sails, and battery in the trunk of my car. I usually put the battery on a smart charger (Battery Tender) after I return from the lake and leave it on until the next outing.

Mike, that sounds just about perfect for a trolling motor (or other small electric). If 90% of your trips are short, the lead acid will really like the shallow discharge with quick recharge.

How big is your lake? Is it easy to get back from anywhere within your range limit? And/or do you run into extended calms?

I used to do extended night sails to distances about double my range. It was an interesting challenge on the return to patch together enough spots with the dying breeze to get half way across and have enough power for the parts that were lined by trees, under bridges, and/or just flat calm. It generally worked out for years, except I ran out 200ft from the dock one night. That's what the paddles are for.

I think I'm pretty experienced by now in getting the last bit out of weak winds. It's a mental challenge and a meditation rolled in one. It's so much fun when you can't feel a breeze, don't see a wake, but the boat still moves! Double the fun under a starry night.

[MikexB]

Thanks GreenLake! I have read a lot of good posts and understood/retained/benefited from about half of it. So, I have a lot to grow into!

I sail on Lake Murray in SC. It is 50k acres, 41mi long, and 14mi wide. Where I sail, it is about 2.5mi wide.

I appreciate the tip about the 50% discharge limit. Hadn't heard about that. The lowest I've had it is 60%. That was after a trip across the lake that started with very light winds that died altogether. "The forecast said 5-8mph. Surely, the wind will pick back up." Every boat wake backwinded the sails. I begged a guy passing me in a paddleboat to speed up so I could catch his breeze. I have used the motor when the winds are barely able to fill the sails and I'm done for the day.

I have a long history of being an early adopter of new technology (computers, cell phones, PDAs, smartphones, GPS, smart devices). Your explanation of lithium batteries and your motor speaks to me! Now that I'm retired, my budget takes a higher priority than in the past. I look for the biggest bang for the buck. It's not as sexy but it is pragmatic given my circumstances.

I liked your story about night sailing and running out of juice 200ft from the dock. My first two outings involved a stuck centerboard and an old trolling motor donated by a friend. The motor died both times despite assurances from my friend. The first time, I was downwind from the ramp. It convinced me that I didn't want to make a habit of paddling. The second time, I purposely headed upwind in case the motor died again. I waited while the wind pushed me back to the dock. I purchased a new motor a few hours later.

Thanks!

Mike

[GreenLake]

That's an impressively sized lake, and big enough to get thoroughly out of range

I sometimes sail on a bay where the wind dies midday, before returning as a sea breeze. That's a perfect place to deal with the calm by taking a nap, and not by motoring around.

If your experience points to more days with weak-ish winds, instead of dead calms, you might invest in a non-standard foresail. Look for the discussion of the Doyle UPS. Not free, either, but something that directly improves the use of the boat as sailboat!

[MikexB]

Yeah, I don't think I'll run out of room anytime soon.

The weather in the South is like that in the North in that there's one time of year that you don't spend extra time outside. Up North, that's the wintertime. Down here, that's the summertime. The mid-day heat is scorching and made only worse by the reflection off of the water. Winds so light that the telltales don't move are not enough to provide relief. It so happens that this is the time of year when the winds are the lightest. I learned that wind forecasts are notoriously optimistic. If the forecast says 5-10mph but it has been calm for the last two hours, I stay home. To be fair, I have been pleasantly surprised on a few occasions with better-than-predicted winds.

I appreciate the tip about a non-standard foresail. I think I might have the original sails from 1985. The bolt rope is rotted out for about 2ft below the headboard. I had a minor repair done that will hold me until I can save up for new sails. I suspect that new sails will help with light wind performance. Better winds and better sails should reduce my need to use the motor.

Mike