Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby GreenLake » Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:57 pm

Adhesive: epoxy.

Either West System six-10 or SystemThree GelMagic (both in the caulk gun cartridge). More glue than you'll need for this project but you'll find many good uses. These keep for years (may need to be put in a water bath (120F) to undo any crystallization. Work great as glues for wood working projects and, in a pinch, will even wet out a patch of fiberglass for a small repair.

Use the epoxy to glue some eye-straps or whatever you can tie zip ties to to your mast.

Alternative glue: JB Weld (that comes in two small tubes, most auto and h/w stores). Works well for metal to metal.

What not to use: 5-min h/w store epoxy in the double syringe. That stuff is something to stay away from :)
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby willyhays » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:11 am

BaySailer,
Now I see what you were getting at with the pole. You know, sometimes the flakiest ideas turn out to be pretty good ones! I found that I could right my Day Sailer pretty easily without actually getting on the centerboard. I grabbed the end of the board with both hands, put both feet on the bottom of the boat just underneath the centerboard and then pull up with my arms until part of my body was out of the water. That's all it took to get it upright.
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Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby willyhays » Thu Sep 04, 2014 7:15 am

Six-10 sounds like a good idea. I've never used it, or the Gelmagic, but I really like the idea of being able to carry a cartridge of epoxy and a few spare mixing nozzles in the tool kit when I go for a long trip. Now, I'm thinking I will make some glass-reinforced/epoxy pad-eyes and glue those onto the mast.
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Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby GreenLake » Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:52 pm

If you store the cartridges below 70F you can get crystallization. It's reversible, but you need to heat the cartridge in a water bath to 120F for a bit. Not a huge issue, but worth being aware of.

For making an anchor point for zip ties using epoxy and fiberglass, you can use the glue itself, no need to get separate laminating epoxy. (For GelMagic, I've had that confirmed by the manufacturer, but I suspect, it's the same for 6-10).

Have fun!
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby willyhays » Thu Sep 04, 2014 4:33 pm

Thanks GreenLake, and everyone else. I'll let you all know how it comes out.
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Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby Salty Dog » Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:36 pm

Maybe a drill. Where if the boat goes over.
1 crew swims to end of mast and holds it up ????
2 skipper releases main and jib sheet
3 skipper pulls CB down haul and cleats it
4 skipper swims out to end of mast and helps crew swim mast around to point to wind
5 skipper swims back to CB
6 skipper climbs on CB and crew swims back to cockpit
7 skipper applies downward pressure to CB
8 mast comes out of water and wind gets under it and helps to blow it upward.
9 as boat comes up crew rolls into cockpit
10 skipper climes in and sheet in main and boat starts underway while crew bails water.
11. as boat is bailed out speed increases open the bailer and let the bailer pull water out.

This actually happened to me except my crew was my girlfriend at the time and she could not hold the mast up. I don't know if I could or not I have not had the chance to try again :) but the water was not as deep as the mast was tall and it stuck in the mud. Mast was about 60 deg below water line. I was able to raise it due to swimming the boat around leeward of the mast with help from the wind. and drift pulled it out and everything else went as written. If the water had been deeper and the boat completely turtled . I don't know if I could have pulled it over with the CB or not. The unknown here is if a crew with adiquit strength could have held the mast or not with his PFD not going under. WE had not practices or discussed the possibilities of going over at the time we just played it by ear so if a crew discussed and knew just what to do it would have went a lot better. I do know that we sailed it back to the dock with stories of adventure on the high seas to tell.

SD
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Re: Capsizing and anti-turtling inflatable device

Postby lemsteraak » Thu Oct 22, 2015 4:43 am

I'm new to DaySailers, but have flipped a lot of boats, mostly intentionally ..... so take all this with a grain of salt

First, prepare your boat. I've got an very early DS1 with a Proctor mast and it was designed to be buoyant. The internal halyards are in the mast track, the bulk of the mast is hollow and sealed, or should be (I have some testing and welding to do). It is remarkable how just this little buoyancy here helps because of the lever action of the mast. Next, check the buoyancy tanks in your hull for leaks, it is easy. Hook a vacuum cleaner backwards to the drain valve to pressurize and then spray all joints with a solution of soapy water, look for bubbles. It is also a good idea to put foam blocks in the buoyancy tanks, many times capsizes also involve collisions, don't ask me how I know that.

Second, here is how I perform a self rescue. Don't expect or ask another boat to help, most times they do more damage than good. Check your crew and hold on to your boat, it is surprising how fast they can sail on their sides. Have one person pull down on the centerboard while the other releases sheets and gathers up stray stuff. Then use the wind to help you up, have your crew put weight on the bow so it digs into the water. This allows the boat to weathervane into the wind, exposing the mast and sails, getting air under them creating lift. Then when the boat flips upright the person on the bow keeps the bow head to wind while the other scrambles on board. The more wind and waves the easier it is. Now, you have a lot of bailing to do, can't help you there.

I've tried external floats on the top of masts. Had a big Tornado cat that I sailed off the beach in Santa Cruz and had a diver's float at the top of the mast. You would inflate if you pulled the string, didn't trust it. I thought Hobie Alter was brilliant to use a buoyant mast and put this into the class rules. We would flip Hobie 16s for the fun of it, especially in big winds and waves, truth is they pitchpoled so easily, so you had better like getting wet.
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