EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Moderator: GreenLake

Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby Hesedguy » Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:18 pm

Thanks! I might give them a call today. My wife doesn't handle heat well and hard work (paddling) in the heat when the wind dies is very uncomfortable for her.
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Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby Hesedguy » Wed Apr 20, 2022 10:51 pm

I've noticed that Greenlake got a Normal shaft, but Tomodda got the long shaft. Either of you had trouble with your choice?
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Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby GreenLake » Thu Apr 21, 2022 3:24 am

I don't have trouble with what I have. In fact, I had a chance to have the builder actually come out and look at it on my boat. So I know it's all good. (It's been so long, I don't actually recall that shaft length detail any longer, but if I wrote it down close to when I purchased the motor, it's probably correct).

I mount mine on the top edge of the transom (motor well) and the little "cavitation plate" is where it's supposed to be. From this picture, you should be able to confirm which size I'm using.

2652
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby GreenLake » Sat Nov 19, 2022 2:28 pm

Looks like the makers of the EP Carry got the supply chain issues sorted out. I got an e-mail advertisement from them for a winter sale. Nice to see that they were able to hold the line on prices. So if you were thinking of getting one, this may be your moment.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby GreenLake » Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:00 am

I had an interesting e-mail exchange with the designer of the EP Carry on the speed prediction. It turns out that there's a reason why the boat speed calculator they have on their site stops at 13'. This is because the formula they use for it becomes more sensitive to other parameters, such as beam, the longer and heavier the boat gets. The predicted speed for a boat as long as the DS is 4 knots, but the measured speeds are at least half a knot below that.

As I've been able to verify, the fore-aft balance matters a lot if you want to get the last bit of speed, and therefore distance: if you sit near the tiller, you lose up to another 1/2 knot, or .5 miles of range at full power. Now, the effect of beam a slow speeds is that it increases skin friction. When sailing in light winds, we know it pays to heel the boat so as to lift part of the hull out of the water, reducing the wetted surface. Sometime soon, I'll have to try that while motoring to see if it affects the top speed. It could be that at that speed range wave drag is strong enough to limit how much extra speed a small reduction in wetted area can generate. (At low speeds, at least, the effect is noticeable).

Now, all of this obsession about performance parameters is in good fun. 99% of the time I neither care about the speed or the range, because I'm looking at traversing a well-defined calm patch, or to get on and off the dock.

Speaking of parameters, the e-mail I mentioned lists the range of the battery as 70 minutes, instead of 60 (as I remembered, and may have written about). That I've been given to understand does represent an actual improvement in battery capacity, over the pre-pandemic model.
The same email, while clearly primarily intended as marketing material, has some nice background info, including several speed vs. electric power curves comparing the performance against a competing small electric outboard and a trolling motor. These curves show the steep rise in power required as you approach hull speed. One thing with the DS is that the EP Carry doesn't get us close to hull speed (5.4 knots).

I asked how I could link to the diagram, and have been given permission to post a PDF of the mail here at the site and you'll find the diagram on p. 6.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby tomodda » Mon Jan 29, 2024 9:22 pm

Woo-hoo! EP Carry and Joe are back from the dead! Or at least back from Vendor Supply Issues limbo.... Bottom line, Joe massively updated his site and the accessories offered for the EP Carry, back in November (23) and I missed it. Go check it out:

https://www.electricpaddle.com/

The accessories are here:

https://www.electricpaddle.com/shop.html

You'll notice on the one hand that prices went up, about $300, 18%ish percent. Not unexpected. And none of the accessories are cheap either. BUT, and this deserves a big "but," Joe is now offering all the parts and know-how to modify your engine to your heart's content. Want to change long shaft to short shaft? Check! Want to monitor your battery power/reserves wirelessly from your smartphone? Check! Longer Throttle Arm? Check! Want to run your motor off a 12V battery? Check again (and this is relatively cheap, a $99 transformer). Do you need spares? Check! Enough to last you on an expedition? Check again! Equally important, between the FAQ section:

https://www.electricpaddle.com/faq.html

..and the Battery Options section:

https://www.electricpaddle.com/battery-options.html

You have all the info you need to try out alternative rigs. I've yet to explore everything on the revised site, but check out all the links at the bottom of the Product Page.

Two interesting, time-dependent bits of info:

1) From now to Feb 11, 2024, Joe is offering a $50 discount on the site, supposedly "Seattle Boat Show Pricing". Check your email if you are on their mailing list, otherwise contact them.
2) Joe is promising a write-up on how to do Solar Charging and an expanded FAQ section for soon after the Boat Show.

Anyway, I'm very happy and quite interested in both Solar Charging and converting my motor to short shaft one day. If you, dear reader, are at all thinking about powering your Daysailer with Electric, you owe it to yourself to check Electric Paddle!
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Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby GreenLake » Tue Jan 30, 2024 1:09 am

Thanks for putting together a summary of what's new, Tom. I saw some of that stuff in my inbox, but hadn't had time to digest it.

I'm most intrigued by the boost converter that lets you power the motor from standard 12V batteries. This would be especially useful in situations where you were already carrying a 12V battery for "house" loads, and wanted the ability to use it to extend your range in a crunch.

Or you could throw a handy 12V battery in the boat when you're out on a longer expedition and might need extensive motoring if you end up becalmed.

The EP-Carry runs on 24V, but it is rather well optimized in terms of its power consumption, so using the converter with a typical 80-100Ah battery (even if you only discharge it to 50%) should provide you with a lot more range than the original battery. It would be heavier and less convenient, but so much cheaper. It should also open up the ability to use one of the newer drop in 12V replacement Lithium FePo batteries. Even more power, but lighter, though a bit pricier.

If my math is right the (actual) Ah needed at 12V to match the capacity of the motor battery would be about 20. An 80Ah battery at 50% should hold as much charge as two of the original batteries, tripling your range. (This almost sounds too good to be true, so I'd love if any of you could check my numbers. But it tallies with what I was told about the EP needing only 30% of the electrical power as a trolling motor at the same speed. I used to get +/- 40min out of my lead batteries with a trolling motor, so getting 120min runtime for the EP in that configuration seems correct. Even if you only get 100, that would be amazing).

I may have to see whether I can catch them at any of the boat shows.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby GreenLake » Wed Jan 31, 2024 6:55 am

Just went to the website and Joe does a nice writeup on the different battery options you can use with an EP Carry. He gives pointers on how to figure out what runtime one can expect with what battery size. With a 100Ah 12V LiFePO4 battery, you could get 4 1/2 hours of runtime. In ideal conditions, I've gotten close to 3.5 knots, so that's about 15 nm. Now, its probably best to be conservative, and assume 3 knots, which still gets you well over 12 nm.

That's 3x the distance you can do with the regular battery, and for only about 25lbs in battery (and the size of the typical car battery). I've made some trips where I would have used that range if I had to motor home from the farthest point in a dead calm, but I've never had to. If you're really in expedition mode, get two, and then you have power left over for "house loads".

Joe points out that with a sealed unit, you get what you get when you choose a battery. I've found a site where a sailor and electrical engineer does videos where he takes them apart and also tests them electrically. His process and explanations make sense, so I'm happy to pass on his reviews here.

Lithium Battery Review (with videos)

Some of the batteries in the review are pretty inexpensive, but you can check out the video and find out how they are put together on the inside and whether you're comfortable with a given one.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby tomodda » Tue Feb 06, 2024 1:48 pm

Yes, I was also rough guesstimateing what I could do with 12v LiFePo batteries. Certainly worth exploring!

And Joe does answer email + I've spoken with him on phone. So you don't have to necessarily catch him at a boat show.

Lastly, I forgot to mention the firmware upgrade! You can up the power output from your engine. The firmware upgrade can be done for free from your smartphone, or for shipping costs, upgrade done by them. I wonder how it affects range, wear out on the gears, etc. But overall, sounds great!

Again, for anyone else reading this - the initial price on thus engine is a bit of a shock for what's essentially a glorified paddle (as far as it's power output and how fast it drives your boat). But the versatility and ease of use is more than worth it. Also still mch cheaper than a Torqueedo and it's other competitors. And no messy fuel to deal with! In case you can't tell, 4 years of use and I still love my EP Paddle.
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Re: EP Carry - Electric Paddle Review

Postby GreenLake » Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:58 pm

I would expect the firmware upgrade to cut into the max range - if you run the motor at higher power. There's a fairly step power law when it comes to the relation between speed and power for boats, so I would be very interested to hear if you go through this and can report on a speed increase.

Even if you can't go much faster through water, it would give you additional power for when you need to motor against wind. For example to set or douse sails. That might be a good reason to do the upgrade, even if you don't end up motoring faster.

The convenience is truly a game changer. Especially when, like me, you ever only bring a motor for that "just in case" scenario. The majority of the time I find I never use it, and cases where I truly need to use it are rarer than that. So the effort of lugging one about, or servicing one, or dealing with dragging lead acid batteries around to charge them like with a trolling motor, all of that will build muscle, but it's really something I don't miss.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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