1st attempted outing

Moderator: GreenLake

1st attempted outing

Postby Fly4rfun » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:36 pm

My plans got changed today so decided I would take my New to me for a shakedown sail to ascertain 1. how to set the sails, 2. where the leaks are 3. how the electric trolling motor pushed her along.

this was the 1st time i had "Sail Aweigh" in the water with mast up. took longer than i wanted to get things situated. ( about a hour) so wind had died down, so I tried out the trolling motor. and was pleasantly pleased. it clipped along at a nice pace , for most of the time i left it on 3, with 5 as the max. (I'm on a small lake 22 acre) did find that the CB gasket was leaking, and i plan on doing that when i put it in the shop for a redo this winter. ( i have it already) looking for instructions to remove the CB. I am also lucky as i have free gas for heat,, so working in the winter is pleasant.
over all it was a pleasant experience being out on the water in my own boat. not disappointed i never got to use the sails, it was good practice to set them up. the lake is only 5 miles away so next time the wind picks up I'll be heading back out. was dark by the time i had lowered and stowed the mast for transport.

one question would be what do you seal the through hull fasteners with to prevent leakage?

G
"Sail Aweigh" 1966 DS1 #2675
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby tomodda » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:08 am

Personally, I use a dab of silicon. But I think Greenlake wrote up why that's bad, I'm sure he'll chime in.

As for wind, I check windfinder.com obsessively. Click on the "dot" (weather station) nearest your lake. They have a "superforecast" which goes two days out and is pretty accurate. Or you can sign up for predictwind.com (there's a free and paid version) and get more info than you can shake a stick at. Anyway, here's for fair winds!
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby GreenLake » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:10 am

Taking one hour for a first setup is actually quite fast. I count that much between driving up and sailing off (including rigging a spinnaker and parking the trailer), but only in the middle of the season when a lot of stuff is already rigged and left in place. At the start of a season, it's a lot longer, esp. if I've taken off the halyards.

I leave my main on the boom, but slacken the outhaul. I then roll it from the tip making sure the battens are parallel to the boom. Then I disconnect the boom (leaving the main sheet rigged) and store it, with the sail on the port side bench. Port side, because the motor well nicely traps the end of the boom and the front I tie to the thwart. I used cushions or old fenders, etc. to provide soft support in two places that's enough to prevent damage.

For the jib I use a soft shackle as a Prusik loop for a quick connect to a continuous single jib sheet. If you still have two with separate bowline knots, or worse, a metal shackle, this would be an upgrade.

Glad your trolling motor works for you. Which model are you using?

With your 1966 DS1, your CB is held by three screws in the plate.
2298
You can unscrew them and then pull out the lever; unless you have this setup on the opposite side:
1042
in which case you'd need to remove that bolt as well.

Before pulling out the handle, make sure your CB is supported (or that you have the boat on its side, so the CB cannot fall out).

PS: what through hull fasteners? The CB bolts should not go through, so the gasket is enough to seal (if new and correctly pressured, just enough). The lower rudder gudgeon may have through bolts near the water line. The way to deal with them is first to make sure any leak cannot get into the wood reinforcing the transom. (If it's too later for that, plan on removing that and glassing in a new one!). This is done by overdrilling the holes, filling with epoxy and drilling again to the correct size. If they manage to drip, you can use a bit of non-silicone caulk to seal.

Most other fasteners shouldn't be immersed except very temporarily (like the ones that hold your chainplates), so I'm not sure they even need attention. Mine are painted over,
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby GreenLake » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:24 am

tomodda wrote:Personally, I use a dab of silicon. But I think Greenlake wrote up why that's bad, I'm sure he'll chime in.

As for wind, I check windfinder.com obsessively. Click on the "dot" (weather station) nearest your lake. They have a "superforecast" which goes two days out and is pretty accurate. Or you can sign up for predictwind.com (there's a free and paid version) and get more info than you can shake a stick at. Anyway, here's for fair winds!


I like to disagree with Tom :)

Silicone will get into gelcoat so you won't be able to paint over it without elaborate use of solvents. Sanding will just spread the stuff. Silicone has no place on a boat. PS caulk, or, for bedding hardware, not that the latter is common on a DS, butyl tape. NEVER 3M 5200 - because everything will have to be removed at some point, and it's just not needed.

Wind forecasting is a a sore topic :(

If the forecast says it'll blow a stink, that tends to happen, and often even in the correct time frame. But timing of fronts is less exact than knowing that there will be one.

If winds are forecast to be moderate to low, local conditions may rule. Majorly! Especially on lakes. Now, I have nothing against using these sites to form an opinion on what might happen, but I wouldn't rely on them to know what will happen. Not unless you've monitored them for a season or two and compared regularly to actual conditions.

Lakes can do all sorts of interesting things: they can form a cold layer of air over night, which then separates (lifts off) any wind from the surrounding land from the lake surface, resulting in no wind on the water. They can develop a lake breeze, when land around them heats up and "sucks" the air towards the shore. After some time, the air in the middle of the lake runs out, and the breeze will collapse, and perhaps start again in a bit. Lake breezes can interfere with the wind over land, by either lining up, going across or going against, modifying said wind. Hills around lakes can funnel wind, and the lake surface, lacking friction, will allow speed to increase. The list is endless.

Around here, I've learned to err on the side of actually driving to the lake (it's really close) and to have a look. I've never had to drive away because of calm, but I've had to skip a race or two because it was out of my comfort zone, sometimes even when being out with expert crew. I've sailed into existing wind to have it die on me while out. Usually, my response is to take that as a cue to take a nap. Nothing beats a nap on the water. Most of the time, the wind comes back -- the particular location where that happens is one where the wind tends to die before the late afternoon breeze.

So, get to know your local conditions.
~ green ~ lake ~ ~
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby Fly4rfun » Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:11 am

Tom and GL

thank you for your reply's, I am learning lots from you tube, reading the post on the forum. As a former pilot,I am somewhat familiar with weather and winds.(let my medical lapse when I had a Major Heart Attack at my Mothers graveside during the burial) this lake is so small and unused for boating i don't think wind info would be available. and I like you GL could run down and check it out first. But the weather .com info will be used, thanks Tom, have also enjoyed your post and input.
GL also thanks for the info on removing the CB was looking for info on how to do that, guess i could put some support under it while on the trailer. I have a port a power that would work well. I have plans on enlarging the holes and re drilling on the gundgeons. The advice about how you set up for transport was very useful, where does one get a prusik loop.
motor is a Minn tonka 30 lbs of thrust,got it used (barely) for $50, guess it will do for docking or clearing the dock, or getting back home if the wind gives out.

Tom, Just say your question in the for sale section, the local lake i was referring to is Dog Run Lake, 22 acres small but close. I have plans to check out Tygard lake near Elkins, Possible Deep Creek in MD. there are some south like Summersville lake, burnsville lake and Stonewall Jackson. I live about a hour south of Morgantown off Hiway 50

so again thanks for the info. Changing Numbers tonight and in the am, well unless the wind is blowing

G.
"Sail Aweigh" 1966 DS1 #2675
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby GreenLake » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:21 pm

My, 22 acres is not a lot. I have a lake that I drive right past that's 10 times the size. I'd feel I'd run out of scope on that one pretty quickly. Once it gets past 500 a single circuit will take enough time to make the setup worth while. But nothing beats "close", esp. for your first quick setups.

The Fleets/Locations is the best section of the forum for discussing sailing areas. We don't have very high traffic here, but someone might check your post and be close to you.

Do check out windy.com. It'll give you a nice animation of what they think is blowing in your area. And lets you compare difference forecast models, all in the free version.

I have a 40# trolling motor (that I retired in favor of an EP Carry, which mainly has the advantage of being very much lighter --- and very much more expensive :) ). A 30# should do you on small lakes like that. Although on Dog Run Lake a simple paddle would probably do (which is something you should carry anyway - it's quicker to deploy than a motor and can be used in so many ways).

A Prusik Loop is just a loop wound about a rope in a Prusik knot (which is a much simpler knot than the name implies, but one that allows the loop to be pulled in the direction of the rope and not slip).

Since you want to attach the loop to a jib, you need one that you can open, in other words, you need a soft shackle (just one that's a bit longer, that is a larger loop). Soft shackles you can buy, or you can learn how to make them in minutes using some Amsteel rope and instructions from https://L-36.com.

Whatever Amsteel you were planning to buy for the project, get twice as much and go a dimension thinner than your natural inclination. The rope is plenty strong (strong as steel of the same diameter) and easy to work with.
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby Fly4rfun » Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:22 pm

GL.

yeah its small but will suffice for now. next year i'll be looking for larger. I do have about 100 ft of 1/8th amsteel my son got me. he's big into ultralight backpacking. was going to use some of it for a jib downhaul. but i guess i could get some 1/4 in to make the prusik loop. as i do enjoy being creative. i picked up a paddle at wally world today, have a nice kayaking paddle already (150.00) along with a nice (NRS) life jacket. I lived close to their headquarters for a while, so got some good deals on equipment.'

was thinking about going red and green for the jib sheets, may just die the ends of what i have already to save $

again thanks for your advice. tomorrow is supposed to be windy, so hopefully another attempt.

Garry
"Sail Aweigh" 1966 DS1 #2675
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby GreenLake » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:20 pm

For a DS, a Prusik loop made from 1/8th should work absolutely fine. (Assuming you don't find making a soft shackle too fiddly).

The instructions you find on other sites assume that you might have a 36' sailboat - where there are totally different concerns about forces and chafing than on a DaySailer.

My experience has been that for a spinnaker sheet, I really like the color coding, but I have sailed on many boats with single color jib sheets and never had a problem. The difference may be that the tails on the spinnaker sheets are really long and in my boat, I don't have a fairlead / cleat for them off on the side, so that they tend to "mingle" just a bit in the center of the boat - fine for how I fly the spinnaker, but makes color coding central in knowing which is which.

For a jib sheet, first, it's easy to just reach over to the correct side of the boat, but also, I even tie my ends together (with an angler's knot), so I have a true loop. I literally grab the sheet anywhere and just hand-over-hand in the correct direction until I have the side tensioned that I want to tension. That one is not universally liked by my various crew. Some do OK, others would rather have a separate sheet for each side. A matter of taste.

Getting used to your DS with a low power motor is just great: you'll learn to think of the sails as the main propulsion and will train yourself effortlessly in how to sail off and on docks. One of the worst docking disasters in my sailing career happened to me when I didn't follow my usual approach to go in under sail, but instead let the owner of that DS talk me into using a motor I was not familiar with. Many boats were put at risk: I got close to sinking the lot of them.
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby Fly4rfun » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:44 pm

GL,

I'll spend some of the winter learning to make Prusik loops. be a good challenge. I tend to prefer a tidy cockpit, and the color coding would be helpful when my friend a non sailor ventures out with me. she already came up with the name, I just spelled the last part differently .

G.
"Sail Aweigh" 1966 DS1 #2675
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby bilbo » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:03 am

For what it’s worth, I just made one using 7/64 Amsteel and it was easy to make and looks like it will work fine. I’m sure 1/8” would work great too. I’d use what you have and not sweat it. The calculator and instructions on L-36.com are awesome. I believe my shackle was about 16” long wrapped around 3/8” sta-set jib sheet. It will be a while before I get to try it but I think it will work well.
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby Fly4rfun » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:26 pm

Like I mentioned I have about 100 ft of 1/8th in , so im going to give it a try.
"Sail Aweigh" 1966 DS1 #2675
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Re: 1st attempted outing / 2nd attempt

Postby Fly4rfun » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:30 pm

Well i actually got the boat to move under sail today, not fast but move it did, Have figured out the winds die down around 3 pm. tomorrow forecast for windy, so guess where i'll be. now back to re numbering the sail.
G.
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby GreenLake » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:29 pm

Good for you. Keep numbering.

If it's taken this long, are you almost done covering the full side of the sail with numbers? :mrgreen:

Actually, I wonder whether the bylaws prohibit decorating the sail with, say a jumble of number pieces like sailboat camo. It would make reading the real numbers pretty tricky, but if not outlawed, some wit will try it some day :)
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby Fly4rfun » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:05 am

GL

Almost, but i ran out of stickers, its going to be can you see the numbers in all the dot's theme :roll: .
some of the time has been in getting the adhesive off. It left a stain on the sail that I had to remove. plus finding something that would remove the adhesive fairly easily. Tried Alcohol, didn't faze it. could not find 3M adhesive remover. so got goo be gone, it was to labor intensive and left residue, We used MEK (methyl ethyl Ketones) to remove the residue after stripping the paint off of airplanes , so i picked up a quart of that, worked great, but remember i must sail when can, so it was done in between sailing. I'm happy with the final results. I'll get some photos tomorrow , going to be windy expect 10Kt

on a side note , what are all the cleats on the lip of your cuddy for. I saw 4 , looking for a way to clean up the lines , get them off the cockpit floor

G
"Sail Aweigh" 1966 DS1 #2675
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Re: 1st attempted outing

Postby GreenLake » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:47 am

About the cleats on the cuddy edge. They are visibly, if barely in this picture (if you click to enlarge it):

2663

I have 5 by now. The left-most is yellow, for this line from my jib halyard tensioner. (That one uses another Prusik loop). It works really great; the only downside to how its currently rigged is that it pulls the halyard a bit away from the mast. That'll get fixed eventually.

2679

That line is yellow in its current incarnation, to distinguish it from the next one, a blue (and yellow) spinnaker pole downhaul (or sometimes called a foreguy). See the thread on rigging and flying a spinnaker.

The next cleat toward the centerline is black and is used with the starboard barber in-haul (white line). Across the centerline is its counterpart for the port side Barber in-haul. They've been discussed here before multiple times. A quick summary of their function can be found in the Jib Sheet post of the Basic Concepts and Techniques thread.

Finally, the right-most one is a gray cleat for the gray spinnaker halyard (yes, in the picture it's still clearly yellow; I moved it across and replaced it by a gray one for color coding).

As you can see, I cleat both main and jib halyard on the mast. Yes it means I need to stand up and at the forward end of the cockpit, but somehow that's not a problem and I'd rather be pulling down on these than in any other directions.

The two horn cleats on the deck I use mainly for docking - like tying one of my fender or tying a dock line. While underway, I secure the painter (orange line). Some people might use a shackle at the bow eye and disconnect it altogether. After I replaced my bow eye, for some reason, I tied a bowline, and that's been like that.
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